Help to identify Australian Army Uniform - completed

[Wallytat]

thanks Mclachlan but my guy came back to Australia.

I was hoping that if we could narrow down the search of military records to which unit he served in then we might be about to find him. seeing as we can not locate him under BDM or the NAA.

Wallytat

[mum mum]

Hi all,
I too have had a look through the National Archives site for a David Brown, the only likely ones I could find were KIA.
This guy doesn't look to be very tall, does the family have any idea of his height? We could probably rule out the six footers by the look of him.
I suppose the more people that have a look the better, somebody might find something that we all missed. I know I enjoy looking, after all I'm on here because I enjoy the search. It's always better if you can find something though.
mum mum

[cando]

It will not achieve a result if you keep looking for a service record for a David BROWN as his grandson has stated on the link given that I also believe he enlisted under an alias  Please read the links given on previous posts for the information to help avoid duplicate searching. 

David BROWN has used one alias....why??  Could this be one of the many possible reasons.

THOMPSON Robert
Father Unknown  Mother  Mary THOMPSON
At Carlton    1883   Reg#22253

Just exploring all possibilities.

Cando on linked thread.

Sorry Wallytat I can't help you with identifying the uniform/regiment and that is your current request.  Have you thought of posting on the Armed Forces board?

Cando

[mum mum]

HI,
On the previous post about David Brown I believe the family thought that he had used the name David Pollock. This has been proved to be unlikely at least.
I have been told that the Archives war records are incomplete, that some records have been lost.
There are also so many Browns that it is only by trawling through all of them, and having some clue as to what we are looking for that he may be found.
I tried to narrow it down by searching for Brown's who won the Military Medal, I found one likely one who I could only find a court martial record for, not his enlistment papers which may give his place of birth, next of kin and height. As I said before, the photo makes him look very short.
mum mum

[majm]

Bit More,

Perhaps if this photo were posted on the WW1 board here at RChat someone would be able to date it, - reason being my rellie thinks that the upturn on the Slouch hat did not come into permitted uniform usage until after the Fromelles tragedies.  Thus even though AIF men may have turned the Slouch up earlier, they would not usually be photographed individually with it that way.  Fromelles was July 1916.  If that bit of info can be verified, then this photo would have been taken AFTER July 1916, and thus the enlistment date for this chap would be AFTER July 1916.  That would help eliminate quite a number of those BROWN AIF enlistments.   I think there are RChatters on the WW1 board who would have better resources to confirm or deny the date for the turn up of the Slouch hat.  -  My rellie thinks it was something to do with the bayonet's height when presented on parade - it often hit the brim of the hat....

JM

[PrueM]

Re. slouch hat with upturned brim - this page shows a cartoon from 1910 showing a soldier wearing same:  http://www.eurekacouncil.com.au/Australia-History/History-Pages/1914-Anzac%20Heritage.htm
I believe that the slouch hat was introduced to Victorian troops in the 1880s and NSW adopted it in 1890.

His collar badges are the Rising Sun that AIF men wore.

If there are regimental/unit insignia they will (I think - I'm no expert) be on his right arm.

[majm]

Ta Prue - for the slouch hat info, my rellie is not disagreeing about when the slouch was turned up by the wearers, but is of the view that the "authorities" only changed the printed rules for turning up the brim because of the losses (KIA and injured) at Fromelles.  She recalls her forebears explaining that studios would not take photographs of men where their uniforms were not fully complying with the written rules, for fear of the studios being denied access to the military camps.  She also mentioned that there may have been debate about which side to turn up, the side for the salute (right hand side) or the side for the bayonet (left hand side).   
As this photo was taken by a studio at the military camp at Liverpool (a suburb of Sydney NSW), then perhaps the date that those written rules were charged could help to date and thus limit the number of candidates to help find the correct David Brown.  Twas just a thought though.  
My rellie's forebears had photographic studios from Degurotype times until post WW2 (I'm not sure if  "Degurotype" is correct spelling, but it sounds like that, - I'm only relaying phone conversations from an elderly rellie who is relying on her own childhood memories). 
I have also found a website re the Light Horse, perhaps Wallytat may find it helpful in this search as there is a forum there.  http://www.lighthorse.org.au/
The following link shows the various uniforms worn by AIF service men and women during WW1. 
http://www.sparkefilms.com/wardrobe/ww1.html

Cheers, JM

[PrueM]

Daguerreotype 

What was the name of your family's business, JM?  Just out of interest...I have some books on early Aus photographers so would be interested to read about them 

I think this thread might be better off on the Armed Forces Board - I shall ask Scrimnet to move it there.

Cheers
Prue

[majm]

Hi Prue,

I shall send you PM re the forebears names, I know that by WW1 one branch were trading as Coronation Studios in Sydney.  I will check will rellie first as to the first surnames in this line, they were among first Aussie photographers, arriving in Victoria pre the gold rush....

I agree about this photo deserving the attention of the WW1 board.  There's some very good RChatters who specialise in that detailed identification on that board.

JM