Micheal Collins and 'The Squad'.

[capel street man]

Hello corisande, can you tell me anything about Count Sevigne, David Neligan mentions him in his book "The Spy in the Castle" and states that in 1921 he was head of the British Secret Service.

I always thought Ormonde de L,Epee Winter, code name " O " was head, or are they one and the same person ? or was one head of the Secret Service and the other head of British Intelligence.

CSM

[corisande]

British Intelligence was set up in a completely brainless way that encouraged turf wars and led to a diminution in their effectiveness

My take on Winter on this link

In addition to that Basil Thompson (link) ran a deep operation out of London (Bowen was one) with said to be 100 agents in Ireland

I have seen that reference to Sevigne and it may or may not be true. The senior men were good at keeping themselves out of the news

[capel street man]

Very interesting corisande, you have put in some stirling research on the Secret Service and Intelligence departments.

David Neligan mentions Count Sevigne again - quote -

When in London in 1921 I visited the Captain at his flat. Count Sevigne shot himself in a London hotel. Suicide is a Secret - Service mans occupational disease. After he,d left here he worked for the Northern Ireland Government for a while.  un - quote.

What makes you think he was Count ADR. Salis ?

Do you think skulduggery is afoot here, surely there would be a report in The Times  or a foot print of him somewhere, if as you say, he really was who he said he was.

CSM

[corisande]

Usually Intelligence pull most info. It tends to be a tell tale if there is say no MIC nor anything on London Gazette nor in Nat Archives

Thompson was good at making men disappear. I don't claim to be right about any of this, I just log the info away and occasionally a snippet comes up that is enough to open the case up on that chap 

No Sevigne on UK deaths for example. You could trawl the Times for gun deaths, in hotels at that time. They tended to avoid the word "suicide" which adds to the difficulty

[GoldenGirl61]

My Grandfather David Golden and My Great Uncle  Joe Leonard (Lily Leonard , Joes sister married my Grandfather)  were part of the uprising and worked with Michael Collins. Just wanting to know more about Joe Leonard. I know he was one of the 12 Apostles. Someone named simokav posted on this site and said he was related to Joe. If anyone has info let me know.
Thanks

[Gary Deering]

Hi Golden Girl, Get yourself a copy of "In the legion of the vanguard" by John A Pinkman it mentions Joe Leonard in it a few times ( he comes across as a good officer), Also there is a facebook group The Burning of the Custom House,theres a few pictures there of Joe,Joe also made a withness statement so that will tell you lots in his own words.Gary

[gkenny]

I believe your grandfather David Golden was a friend of Vinny Byrne (member of Michael Collins Squad).   You might be interested to see a christmas card from him to Vinny in 1918 :

http://www.militaria-archive.com/independence/vinny-byrne.html

http://www.militaria-archive.com/independence/vb-scrapb1/content/Vincent_Byrne_Scrapbook_053_large.html



Also a picture of David Thomas Golden, junior of Chicago, whose father was a leading member of the battalion and is now residing in Chicago.



(Moderators please do not remove pictures as I run that website).

[GoldenGirl61]

O my goodness! Yes that is my grandfather! In the lower picture ,the man on the right is my father, also David Thomas Golden! Any more info you have on my Granddad or Joe Leonard my great uncle I would so appreciate!!I would love to hear of the friendships my granddad had and who Vinny Byrne was.
I have a picture of my Grandad in uniform with two other men I will scan and post asap. One of them might be Vinny. I will ask my Dad.
Thanks a million!

[gkenny]

Glad that is useful, your Grandfather is also mentioned on P111 of 'The Squad: and the Intelligence Operations of Michael Collins' by T.Ryle Dwyer:

http://www.amazon.com/Squad-Intelligence-Operations-Michael-Collins/dp/1856354695

It's a brief mention of him being the driver on an operation to raid soldiers and sentries at the Kings Inns in Dublin (for weapons) on 1st June 1920, it was an operation involving Collins' Squad and Dublin IRA.