Author Topic: Idiots, Imbeciles, Lunatics .....  (Read 7127 times)

Offline Steve G

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Idiots, Imbeciles, Lunatics .....
« on: Friday 11 September 09 23:09 BST (UK) »
  :-X I'm Not saying a Word about ..... You know who!  ;D

Seriously though, folks; Census Reports and Workhouse Inmates listings both use these categorisations.

 What's long since bugged me is; What's the criteria? What differentiates between the three? Who handed out these deliciously un PC labels? What might be a consequence of being so labelled?

 Which one would apply to a man who answered the door to the Enumerator, wearing his underpants on his head? Would that man go up a grade, should he enter a pub in that condition?

Surely a discussion that can well and truly provide us all with 'Something for the week end' ?  ;)
GAITES (Alverstoke / Bath Pre 1850)
CURTIS (Portsmouth & 1800's Berkshire).
BURGE (Dorset, Somerset and Hampshire)
HUNTLEY (Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, 'Surroundings')

Offline Ecneps

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Re: Idiots, Imbeciles, Lunatics .....
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 12 September 09 00:22 BST (UK) »
I found these links while replying to a thread on this subject recently, they explain the criteria used

http://studymore.org.uk/mhhglo.htm#CountyAsylums

http://studymore.org.uk/xmad1844.htm

Barbara  :)
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Offline stanmapstone

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Re: Idiots, Imbeciles, Lunatics .....
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 12 September 09 11:42 BST (UK) »
In the 1871 Census people were asked whether any member of the household was an 'imbecile or idiot' or 'feeble-minded', a question that was retained until the 1911 Census.
The exact definitions of terms such as 'lunatic', 'imbecile', 'idiot' and 'feeble-minded' are extremely problematic. According to the 1881 Census Report;
No accurate line of demarcation can be drawn between the several conditions indicated by these terms. Speaking generally, however, the term idiot is applied in popular usage simply to those who suffer from congenital mental deficiency, and the term imbecile to persons who have fallen in later life into a state of chronic dementia. But it is certain that neither this nor any other definite distinction between the terms was rigorously observed in the schedules, and consequently no attempt has been made by us to separate imbeciles from idiots. The term lunatic also is used with some vagueness, and probably some persons suffering from congenital idiocy, and many more suffering from dementia, were returned under this name.

Considering that householders, who could be illiterate, were being asked to give information about medical disabilities without any definition of the terms being used the answers should be treated with caution. Also they would be unwilling to admit  that anyone in the family had medical disabilities.

If you want to find out more look at
On the Diagnosis and Prognosis of Idiocy and Imbecility
http://www.personal.dundee.ac.uk/~mksimpso/IreDiag.htm

Stan
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Offline Arranroots

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Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN - HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD - GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS - WIL: WEBB, SALTER - RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS - GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY - MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD - SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON - IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK)


Offline Steve G

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Re: Idiots, Imbeciles, Lunatics .....
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 13 September 09 03:01 BST (UK) »
Cheers for some truly fascinating and ongoing reading there, folks!  :)

 Best of all, I now see that a rellie of mine who, I thought, had been unable to move for months before his death due to " Paralysis ", had in fact simply lost the plot. I'd never really stopped to consider where the term " Paralytic Drunk " came from before!

 Makes me wish I had longer to live ~ there's just so much great stuff still to be learned  :)

 Thanks.
GAITES (Alverstoke / Bath Pre 1850)
CURTIS (Portsmouth & 1800's Berkshire).
BURGE (Dorset, Somerset and Hampshire)
HUNTLEY (Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, 'Surroundings')

Offline Parmesan

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Re: Idiots, Imbeciles, Lunatics .....
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 13 September 09 21:32 BST (UK) »
I have an ancestor who is shown as a 'cripple' on one census and an 'imbecile' on another -

does not compute!
Paternal: Staffordshire, Shropshire, Lancashire, Cheshire, Durham, Wales, Arrondissements Oudenaarde and Gent, Belgium, -  - Maternal: Cheshire, Lancashire, Ireland

Offline Steve G

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Re: Idiots, Imbeciles, Lunatics .....
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 13 September 09 21:58 BST (UK) »
 ??? Which came first? Perhaps they were crippled, and later lost the plot, thus qualifying for " Imbecile ".

 Or, perhaps they were spastic and someone took more notice of one aspect than the other?
GAITES (Alverstoke / Bath Pre 1850)
CURTIS (Portsmouth & 1800's Berkshire).
BURGE (Dorset, Somerset and Hampshire)
HUNTLEY (Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, 'Surroundings')

Offline Parmesan

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Re: Idiots, Imbeciles, Lunatics .....
« Reply #7 on: Monday 14 September 09 11:42 BST (UK) »
He first appears on the 1861 census, it says crippled from birth then what looks like 'deformed' but not sure, what do you think?

then on the 1871 census it says 'imbecile'

He's still alive in 1891 aged 58. Incidentally his disability is not mentioned on either the 1881 or 1891 censuses.
Paternal: Staffordshire, Shropshire, Lancashire, Cheshire, Durham, Wales, Arrondissements Oudenaarde and Gent, Belgium, -  - Maternal: Cheshire, Lancashire, Ireland

Offline Steve G

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Re: Idiots, Imbeciles, Lunatics .....
« Reply #8 on: Monday 14 September 09 12:35 BST (UK) »
I think my head's spinning ..... I'd get that word up to the Decipherers board. I've just sat and blown it up and stared at it till my head spun. Because I just can't get a grip on what it is ~ or appears to be. But, I somehow feel accepting " Deformed " might be a cop out.  Yet 'DEF' it certainly looks to start with. Dunno ...

 Imbecile? Well, in the strictest sense, one was born an Idiot but could become an Imbecile. Maybe he had a bad spell and got over it?

 Sorry. I really do feel there's something just under the surface here. But I'm not quite firing on all four cylinders yet. Haven't had my mug of tea  ;)
GAITES (Alverstoke / Bath Pre 1850)
CURTIS (Portsmouth & 1800's Berkshire).
BURGE (Dorset, Somerset and Hampshire)
HUNTLEY (Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, 'Surroundings')