Author Topic: Idiots, Imbeciles, Lunatics .....  (Read 7126 times)

Offline Arranroots

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Re: Idiots, Imbeciles, Lunatics .....
« Reply #18 on: Monday 14 September 09 18:46 BST (UK) »
The original question has been answered and the mystery word decoded by consensus, so unless there is anything else on topic - would you like me to move this to the Totally Off Topic board?

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN - HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD - GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS - WIL: WEBB, SALTER - RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS - GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY - MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD - SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON - IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK)

Offline Steve G

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Re: Idiots, Imbeciles, Lunatics .....
« Reply #19 on: Monday 14 September 09 19:25 BST (UK) »
 ::)
GAITES (Alverstoke / Bath Pre 1850)
CURTIS (Portsmouth & 1800's Berkshire).
BURGE (Dorset, Somerset and Hampshire)
HUNTLEY (Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, 'Surroundings')

Offline lolponty

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Re: Idiots, Imbeciles, Lunatics .....
« Reply #20 on: Sunday 08 November 09 13:48 GMT (UK) »
Under the old Mental Health catergories these were divided by IQ levels if my memory serves me right, worst of categories was imbecile these were usually people with an IQ of less than 60 with serious mental and/or physical deformiites. Idiots were people with IQ less than 70 and Feeble-minded fell between 70 and 90. I may be a bit out on actual figures but not that much. All could have physical problems as well as what we now call learning difficulties. There was also another category Moral Defectives this was usually given to women who had illigitimate children or lived off immoral earnings and could be sectioned and incarcerated under the Mental Health Act. Incidentally, as a retired nurse for what was then termed Mentally Handicapped people, we had in our care a lady who was locked away for the sole offence of having an illigitmate child, she was in her late teens when sectioned and although under the Mental Health Act of 1959 was free to leave, having only known institutional life for 40 years did not wish to do so. She was still alive in the late 80's and her daughter visited her regularly. Its sounds likely that your relative could have suffered with Cerebral Palsy (spasticity) and although may or may not have had normal IQ, because of the poor knowledge of these conditions at the time and lack of therapy and speech aids, may have been thought to have low IQ. The film My Left Foot illustrates this very well but he was proved to have normal IQ when ways of helping him communicate were discovered. Lunatics were people who would now be classed as having Mental Illness and come under the Psychiatric umbrella. Hope this helps. Lorraine

Offline Steve G

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Re: Idiots, Imbeciles, Lunatics .....
« Reply #21 on: Sunday 08 November 09 15:13 GMT (UK) »
 Thanks for the input, Lorraine  :)
GAITES (Alverstoke / Bath Pre 1850)
CURTIS (Portsmouth & 1800's Berkshire).
BURGE (Dorset, Somerset and Hampshire)
HUNTLEY (Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, 'Surroundings')


Offline Redroger

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Re: Idiots, Imbeciles, Lunatics .....
« Reply #22 on: Monday 09 November 09 17:54 GMT (UK) »
My understanding is that prior to the 1851 census the government became concerned at the level of people in these categories in society due to inbreeding amongst already closely related communities, and wished to have an idea at the extent of the potential problem. By the look of some of the village family trees that I have researched I think their worries were justified.
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)

Offline Steve G

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Re: Idiots, Imbeciles, Lunatics .....
« Reply #23 on: Monday 09 November 09 18:15 GMT (UK) »
Good and interesting point, Roger. I too have looked into some of the goings on in the lower west country rural areas of a couple of generations back. One can almost hear the banjo's as one reads ....  :o

 Hells teeth! That's just led me to think a bit further along those lines. Not something for publication here but, I actually know of an recorded case which pretty well demonstrated what we're thinking!

 Interestingly, it involved a direct descendent from just such a 'close' community. Makes me shudder to think what more might lie behind That incident now. Urgh!
GAITES (Alverstoke / Bath Pre 1850)
CURTIS (Portsmouth & 1800's Berkshire).
BURGE (Dorset, Somerset and Hampshire)
HUNTLEY (Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, 'Surroundings')

Offline Redroger

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Re: Idiots, Imbeciles, Lunatics .....
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday 10 November 09 17:37 GMT (UK) »
Plus in the areas I am researching surnames Gypsy and known to you from a recent thread, in a village where it is reported that arranged marriages were extremely common.Do you know of any? People whose families were likely to have been involved seem to follow an omerta worthy of the Mafia!
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)

Offline Geoff-E

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Re: Idiots, Imbeciles, Lunatics .....
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 10 November 09 18:09 GMT (UK) »
Under the old Mental Health catergories these were divided by IQ levels if my memory serves me right, worst of categories was imbecile these were usually people with an IQ of less than 60 with serious mental and/or physical deformiites. Idiots were people with IQ less than 70 and Feeble-minded fell between 70 and 90. I may be a bit out on actual figures but not that much.

While some sort of approximations like these can be made, it's worth remembering that the notion of IQ was only invented in 1912 ... so attempting to apply such distinctions to 19th century censuses is somewhat dodgy ;)
Today I broke my personal record for most consecutive days alive.

Offline Steve G

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Re: Idiots, Imbeciles, Lunatics .....
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday 10 November 09 18:11 GMT (UK) »
I wouldn't know about 'arranged marriages', Roger. But, I yet have a bit of a brick wall to get through, regarding one of my lines of deepest interest. And, now we're veering towards it? That line is gathering rather too much incidental evidence of a 'Bad Gene' to be lightly ignored. Something not right with the men.

 That brings us nicely back onto topic. And That now makes me wonder if there may not be a link in all of this.

 Taken in isolation, nothing quite hits the mark or explains itself. Put it all together? I'm wondering if we're not hedging round the discussion of a strong possibility here?
GAITES (Alverstoke / Bath Pre 1850)
CURTIS (Portsmouth & 1800's Berkshire).
BURGE (Dorset, Somerset and Hampshire)
HUNTLEY (Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, 'Surroundings')