Author Topic: Ticehurst in Sussex ~ The Place ....?  (Read 3644 times)

Offline Steve G

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,093
  • My Maternal Great Gran ~ Polly Burge
    • View Profile
Ticehurst in Sussex ~ The Place ....?
« on: Monday 07 September 09 14:11 BST (UK) »
 ??? Ok, this is doing my head in; What was it about that place? (Maybe it still is?) Only, it appears to have been quite the Mecca, for Gypsys, not so long ago. One of mine has just turned up being born there.

I'm sure I also sped past some mention of an incumbent man of the cloth there, at one time, having a bit of a busy time keeping up with their Baptisms.

 Smacks of a Hop Field, or something, to me. Anyone put me out of my misery, please?

 What's to know about this place, turn of the century?

Steve the Mystified.
GAITES (Alverstoke / Bath Pre 1850)
CURTIS (Portsmouth & 1800's Berkshire).
BURGE (Dorset, Somerset and Hampshire)
HUNTLEY (Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, 'Surroundings')

Offline lizdb

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,307
    • View Profile
Re: Ticehurst in Sussex ~ The Place ....?
« Reply #1 on: Monday 07 September 09 16:19 BST (UK) »
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Steve G

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,093
  • My Maternal Great Gran ~ Polly Burge
    • View Profile
Re: Ticehurst in Sussex ~ The Place ....?
« Reply #2 on: Monday 07 September 09 16:44 BST (UK) »
Cheers for that, Liz. Unfortunately, it gives us none of the 'inside track' I'd require. In fact, it doesn't even mention Gypsys at all  :(

 Ye see Pashley Manor though? Well, that comes up a lot, when one Google's Ticehurst. And somewhere in amongst all that is mention of " Son of a Gypsy ".

 Unfortunately, where ever I've tried to follow that Bot, I've ended up with reams and reams of stuff, in amongst which I simply can't find that wording  :-\

 So, even one of the local manors admits to some Gypsy connection. So much smoke about the place .....
GAITES (Alverstoke / Bath Pre 1850)
CURTIS (Portsmouth & 1800's Berkshire).
BURGE (Dorset, Somerset and Hampshire)
HUNTLEY (Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, 'Surroundings')

Offline california dreamin

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,273
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Ticehurst in Sussex ~ The Place ....?
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 08 September 09 11:00 BST (UK) »
??? Ok, this is doing my head in; What was it about that place? (Maybe it still is?) Only, it appears to have been quite the Mecca, for Gypsys, not so long ago. One of mine has just turned up being born there.

I'm sure I also sped past some mention of an incumbent man of the cloth there, at one time, having a bit of a busy time keeping up with their Baptisms.

 Smacks of a Hop Field, or something, to me. Anyone put me out of my misery, please?

 What's to know about this place, turn of the century?

Steve the Mystified.

Dear Steve
I have recently been researching my ancestors who came from this part of the world.  This seems to have been the area, even then for farming, hops and apple orchards etc.  They also seem to have experienced a number of bad harvests at one point and I was interested to read the following:

"Smuggling, or Owling as it was originally termed, developed around the year 1300 in response to the introduction of customs duty on the export of wool, where previously all export and import trading had been free. Although initially the duties were quite small, as the hundred-years war progressed, tax increased, and in 1614 with the introduction of a ban on the export of wool, smuggling really took off. Incidences of smuggling increased dramatically following the end of the Napoleonic wars (1797-1815), and as levies on tea, tobacco and spirits were increased these goods were also smuggled.
As traditional Sussex industries declined, such as fishing, weaving and iron production, men sought other ways of supplementing a meagre income. Tub carriers could earn up to 10/- a night carrying tubs from the beach up to local hiding places, which compared favourably to a labourers weekly salary. However, although smuggling could be highly lucrative it could also be exceptionally dangerous and although it was generally only the gang leaders that were convicted, these men risked their lives and their livelihoods. Sea smugglers faced naval service on a man-of-war and land smugglers risked transportation and possibly even death if convicted.
The Sussex coast was ideally placed as a drop off point for contraband and the beaches of Hastings, Bexhill and Eastbourne experienced many incidences of smuggling".

Sadly, I discovered no Smugglers amongst my lot  :'(.  My family did leave the area as assisted immigrants.  I gather owing to the Settlement laws of the time the parish elders did not want anyone to live in their parish that was likely to become a burden on their finances.  People like migrant workers, or unwed mothers (from my research their seems to have been alot of baseborn babies in many of the parishes) or those unlikely to support themselves were not desirable community members.  They were allowed assisted passage....out!.  This is what my family seems to have done, and they left for Australia. Not as convicts as I first thought, but as one of these many Assisted Immigrants.  The family continued to leave for years and years.  One year one brother, then another etc.

Anyway perhaps may shed some light  :)on this area, perhaps not -  clear as mud!
Cheers, Leslie


Offline Steve G

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,093
  • My Maternal Great Gran ~ Polly Burge
    • View Profile
Re: Ticehurst in Sussex ~ The Place ....?
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 08 September 09 13:21 BST (UK) »
 Cheers, Leslie. So there was work there then?  That and a priest happy to baptise Gypsys? So far, so good. I feel we're just missing one vital ingredient here; What makes Ticehurst stand out like a smack in the mouth?

 East Sussex? Good, fertile land. Close to Kent ('Garden of England'). Ton of work all over the place, surely? And most priests are pretty eager to baptise who ever they can get their hands on. He just got lucky because they appear to have passed through there in their droves.

 What the hell was it  ???


 Anyway, bad harvests and smuggling? Tell me about it! Co. Leitrim's been experiencing unprecedented rains, all this year. It hasn't let up. Barely a dry day in a given month. Hay harvest? What hay? Oh; Ye mean that half rotten, ruined stuff laying in the water logged fields all around me?  :(

 And here's me, sat here smoking recycled roll ups and wondering when that girl's going to get her finger out and come up with some more 'baccy, from 'Up North', or where ever she gets it from, at those prices.

 Some things never change!  ;D
GAITES (Alverstoke / Bath Pre 1850)
CURTIS (Portsmouth & 1800's Berkshire).
BURGE (Dorset, Somerset and Hampshire)
HUNTLEY (Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, 'Surroundings')

Offline california dreamin

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,273
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Ticehurst in Sussex ~ The Place ....?
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 08 September 09 14:10 BST (UK) »
Hiya Steve

Are you sure you are not thinking too deeply about this one.  Perhaps Ticehurst was at a crossroads with a good road one way leading into the "Big Smoke" and another towards the Coast, harbour and fast ships ...away - oh yeah don't forget a place with a great pub where you could catch up on all the crac & get your baby baptised? :D

Leslie

Offline shaneooo

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 165
    • View Profile
Re: Ticehurst in Sussex ~ The Place ....?
« Reply #6 on: Friday 11 September 09 17:33 BST (UK) »
hi steve,

could they be relying on the workhouse in winter months as was quite common.
ive noticed a lot of baptisms and births in my families where there is a local workhouse, some of which had an infirmary.

cheers shane.
Baker, kent
Goldsmith, kent
Perfect, kent
Rattigan, moate eire
Pennell, thanet, Faversham

Offline Steve G

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,093
  • My Maternal Great Gran ~ Polly Burge
    • View Profile
Re: Ticehurst in Sussex ~ The Place ....?
« Reply #7 on: Friday 11 September 09 23:25 BST (UK) »
 Leslie; I've got to the point now where I have to think so deeply about some of mine, I get The Bends afterwards!  ;D

 What it is; I hate these niggling little things which I can't quite pin down. Especially when connected to people who are already giving me the run around.

 Long, true life experience has taught me that, if I smell a rat? I'd better check around the kitchen sink. (Ye think I'm joking? I couldn't make that up!) Seriously. I'm a Rat Catcher. Rats, unlike mice, need a source of physical water. Kitchen sink cupboards are a potential source of water. They have pipes, which provide weak spots for ingress. The unit provides harbourage ~ Yeah. Now go check your kitchen unit!  ;)

 And, on a similar basis; Ticehurst is constantly giving off this historical hum as a place where Gypsys were to be found. Why?

 And Shane there has just added another excellent point. Ticehurst did indeed have what amounted to a cracking Workhouse. They build a custom planned one in the mid 1800's.

 It walks like a duck. Now it's starting to sound like one .....
GAITES (Alverstoke / Bath Pre 1850)
CURTIS (Portsmouth & 1800's Berkshire).
BURGE (Dorset, Somerset and Hampshire)
HUNTLEY (Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, 'Surroundings')

Offline WealdenClark

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 8
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Ticehurst in Sussex ~ The Place ....?
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 17 October 09 17:12 BST (UK) »
Hi Steve,

I hope this information helps.

Ticehurst was a main base for my family since at least 1820, and was at the eastern end of my great grandad's sweeping circuit that terminated at Rotherfield in the west.

A few of things:

(a) Geography: being on the southern end of The Weald the areas in between the villages of Ticegurst, Stonegate, Burwash, Heathfield and Rotherfield etc were separated by countryside in which much of the land was a little hilly, boggy, overgrown and hidden, providing good stopping/hiding places. The roads were, and still seem to be, a little smallish. This was unlike areas close to the A21 in the east which was a main highway, and so exposed to police harassment.

These places are also to some extent 'sealed off' by upland ridges to the north and south, so they are intruded on less. Hedgehogs and Rabbits are extremely common. My great uncle would visit grandad (bringing his 'stoat in a bag') just to go hunting there, as it was better ground than in Brenchley and Tonbridge to the north where he lived. There was less need for my family to poach: so again they were less exposed to the law. You could ALMOST live off the land in these places: It sustained a family of 25 for my grandad for over 30 years.

(b). Wealthy villages: Places like Ticehurst, Mayfield and Burwash had a large 'rich' segment of the population who were happy to use grandad to rid themselves of their cast-offs for his rag and bone work. A suitably sited den could service a few larger villages for chimney sweeping work, and the residents could afford to pay. This is what great-grandad did. Grandad was able to pick out 6-7 nearby hamlets to sell holly wreaths in at Christmas (using his cute children to soften up the locals!)
(grandad walked 10-20 miles a day to maximise the no. of hamlets visited).

(c). Commons: Each village would have had a common that was originally not fenced off. A high density of village commons would have attracted Romanies in the first place as in the old days they camped on them. Grandad lived on the fringe of Broad Oak Common (hidden in the woods).

(d). Local Options: as already mentioned, the hop parishes and fruit fields were nearby. My ancestors could fall back on their chavvies as unpaid workers for fruit picking if times got hard (grandad kept all the money, and fed them oatmeal!) Living there, grandad eventually saved up £800 to buy a smallholding, which represented 25 years savings. Not bad.

(e). Strength in numbers?

NB1: between Ticehurst and Heathfield, both my grandad's and great grandad's circuits covered almost exactly 8 x 14 miles.

NB2: Regarding the workhouse, my grandad had a phobia about these places

Good luck with your research,

Neil Harvey


Clark, Clarke, Newman, King, Wood, Stone, Wright, Pointer, Bacon, Porter, Barton, Gumble, Hayward, Marchant, Salter
 
East Sussex, Kent, London, Wales