Author Topic: Williams/Cole  (Read 3851 times)

Offline suzard

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Re: Williams/Cole
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 05 September 09 11:49 BST (UK) »
So pleased we are helping


Did Frederick Thomas and Florence have a son named Alfred Charles?????

Suz
Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline garstonite

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Re: Williams/Cole
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 05 September 09 11:58 BST (UK) »
a bit strange I can`t find Rose Ann Williams babtism on CPRDb... Malpas Chester as far as I know is translated....AHA...just noticed Kens post...quote ..where ANN ROSE....I`ve been looking for Rose Ann....back soon...allan
ADDED....only ONE possible but no name ROSE on the babtism ...so may not be our Ann
babtised at St John the Babtist church, 18th November 1855...
Ann Williams
father William...occ...cowkeeper
mother Catharine....address Park Street , Malpas..............allan
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford

Offline LeungKen

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Re: Williams/Cole
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 05 September 09 12:03 BST (UK) »
Hi Suz,

Yes they did, he died an early death (about 5 or 6 y.o. and I think he was  buried in Letchworth Old Church graveyard.

They also had 2 Daughters, Florence (my aunt) and Joan my mother.

Fredrick Thomas Williams served in WW1 from 1915 - 1919 with the A.S.C. as a Private (Army Service Corp I believe - I know he drove a lorry as he had a drivers licence,  which at least kept him out of the trenches)

Cheers Again

Ken

Offline suzard

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Re: Williams/Cole
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 05 September 09 14:19 BST (UK) »
Hi Garstonite,

from 1891 census we know Rose's mother was mary e williams and she was born Bickley cheshire

I can't locate them in earlier census - nor can I locate marriage of Rose to John Cole (Coles?)

Suz
Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline LeungKen

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Re: Williams/Cole
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 05 September 09 16:27 BST (UK) »
Hi Suz & Garstonite & Allan,
I have just had information from my cousin, Re.Fredrick Thomas Williams. who has viewed the birth certificate of Hannah Cole (F.T.Williams's half sister) and it states that she was born in 1894 at 2 Vernon Place, West Gorton, Manchester, Her mothers name is listed as Rose Ann Cole and that her husband's name was John Cole.
It's believed that Rose Ann Williams/Cole later remarried (the lodger ! ) a Mr. Hampton (Spelling uncertain )
Cor the plot gets murkier... :o
Cheers and thanks again
Regards
Ken

Offline suzard

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Re: Williams/Cole
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 05 September 09 18:42 BST (UK) »
Hi Ken,

if the birth certificate of Hannah has been viewed it would also give the maiden name of Rose Ann.

Rose married (the lodger) Richard Hampson in 1906 -but I don't think they had any children together.-I posted the marriage reg previously.

So maybe john Cole died between 1901 (as he appears on that census and 1907

I'll have a look

Suz

Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline suzard

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Re: Williams/Cole
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 05 September 09 20:29 BST (UK) »
Now -here's another twist!!!!!

I think I have found Rose Ann with her parents and siblings

if you look back to the 1891 census -Rose and John have mary E Williams with them who is described as mother in law to John - so that is mother of Rose.

However it looks like she is in fact Rose's stepmother!!!!
Rose is consistent with her p.o.b. - but not her age!!!

1891 census she is age 27

1901 census she is age 45 -although it is very difficult to read on the image

1911 she is 44 - but she could have knocked a few years off her age as her husband was only in his thirties
It was quite a common practice to knock a few years off when a lady married a younger man

working on the assumption that the age in 1891 is nerest the correct age  I have found the following -which I think is quite possibly the correct family

1881
9 Montague Ave
Gorton
lancs
Job Williams Head M 49 Lab
Mary wife 47
James W son widower 27 lab
ROSE daughter 16 General servant
George son 14 Office Boy
Jane daughter 8 scholar
all b malpas Cheshire (although on some census Job is b in Wales -which is most probable)
RG11 3906 73 57

1871
Wychough Lane
malpas Cheshire
Job Williams head M 42 ag lab Threapwood Flintshire Wales
Eliza wife 39
Frederick son 13
henry son 9
ROSE ANN aughter 6
Thomas son 5
George son 3
Martha daughter 1
Eliza and children born Malpas
RG10 2798 25 40

1861
Well St
malpas cheshire
Job Williams head m 30 ag lab
Eliza wife 29
Elizabeth daughter 8
John son 6
James son 4
Frederick son 2
Thomas son 6mths
William Jackson Boarder u Bricklayer Cheshire

all Williams family b Malpas

RG9 1891 16 26

back later with more

Suz


1871
Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline suzard

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Re: Williams/Cole
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 05 September 09 20:37 BST (UK) »
this is probalywhy Job altersp.o.b.

The parish of Threapwood was formed out of parts of the parish of Worthenbury Flintshire and Malpas Chester (Cheshire)

It was previouslyan extra parochial place.

The Flintshire part of the parish was transferred to Cheshire n 1896

Suz
Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline LeungKen

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Re: Williams/Cole
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 06 September 09 05:26 BST (UK) »
Hi Suz.

 Wow..!  :o ( I think this is the emoticon for Gob-smacked !)
Your researching skills are incredible.
Some of this makes sense as there were rumours that Granddad ( F.T. Williams) had some Welsh blood in him, but with a name like Williams to be expected.
By what you have discovered so far you make me wonder when Granddad's mother (Rose Ann ) moved to the Manchester area, and was she "with child then", possibly sent away to stay with relatives (Not uncommon in those times )

I'm still happy to trace any link back whether it's paternal or maternal, and therefor very grateful for all that you've unearthed so far. I'd always been 99% certain that I'd never be able to trace Grandad's true father, but any further information on his mother's side would be a huge bonus.

I must remind you that there has always been some doubt over Grandad's true date of birth and that the 22nd Sept 1884 may not be the absolute "Gospel Truth" but with the known facts that we have with his siblings it all seems to tie in so far., and even if we can't go back any further I shall still be for ever thankful for what you've unearthed so far.

My only other query to you is how can I go back a generation or two on Florence Harrison (F.T. Williams' wife - for over 50 years) and younger sister of Annie, both believed to have been born in the Manchester area. It was Annie who first moved to Letchworth Garden City Herts, with her husband Charlie Royal and at their suggestion my grandparents subsequently moved there to reap the benefits of clean air and a new start after the grime & poverty of industrial Manchester. It was in Letchworth that my mother grew up and subsequently married my father.

My brother, before he passed away, started to trace back our paternal line so I do have a little knowledge of my paternal Grandfather, but what I also want to do is check back on my paternal Grandmother's side so will try and see how I go about opening a thread in the appropriate section (I guess there is a Hertfordshire section in Roots Chat is there ?)

Once again thank you from the bottom of my heart for all the time you have already spent on this research, I feel I can now at least leave (when my time comes) my nieces with a few clues as to their ancestry and that I've tried to do my bit to keep the family history alive - we are all, after all said and done, a product of our genes.

Best Wishes

Ken.

P.S. It's actually my 62nd birthday today, and the info that you good people of Roots Chat have provided so far is a birthday present beyond expectation.

 :). :-*. ;)