Author Topic: Custom House Burning - Part 1 / John Wilson  (Read 98883 times)

Offline seanod

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 143
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Custom House Burning / John Wilson
« Reply #162 on: Wednesday 02 December 09 09:36 GMT (UK) »
Seanod this may interest you:
Where's where in Dublin: a directory of historic locations, 1913-1923 : ...
http://www.rootschat.com/links/07lf/
page 6: 55 Amiens Street ...
page 55: ...  On 21st May 1921 a meeting was held here to finalize the plans to burn the Custom House. In attendance were Michael Collins, Sean Dowling, Richard Mulcahy, Ginger O'Connell and Oscar Traynor.

Hi Linda, Thanks for that. I thought this was another version of the book I've mentioned before, Dublin in Rebellion, but it doesn't give the same information. The Dublin in Rebellion book says that 55 Amiens street was the home of Seán Doyle, who was killed at the CH, but there is no mention of the meeting. I'll have to get that book.  :)

Offline seanod

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 143
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Custom House Burning / John Wilson
« Reply #163 on: Wednesday 02 December 09 09:37 GMT (UK) »

Seanod this may interest you:
Where's where in Dublin: a directory of historic locations, 1913-1923 : ...
http://www.rootschat.com/links/07lf/
page 6: 55 Amiens Street ...
page 55: ...  On 21st May 1921 a meeting was held here to finalize the plans to burn the Custom House. In attendance were Michael Collins, Sean Dowling, Richard Mulcahy, Ginger O'Connell and Oscar Traynor.

Hi Linda, Thanks for that. I thought this was another version of the book I've mentioned before, Dublin in Rebellion, but it doesn't give the same information. The Dublin in Rebellion book says that 55 Amiens street was the home of Seán Doyle, who was killed at the CH, but there is no mention of the meeting. I'll have to get that book.  :)

Offline Pcdl

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 13
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Custom House Burning / John Wilson
« Reply #164 on: Monday 11 January 10 13:34 GMT (UK) »
Hi, Just came across this site today while surfing.  Sean Doyle was my Great Grandfather.  I was interested to see if he was mentioned anywhere in the thread.  I was very suprised to learn that the planning meeting to attack the CH was held in his house - never heard this before.  His wife (my Great Grandmother) lived well into her eighties so I'm lucky enough to have known her.  Sean was only 20 when he died - his older brother Patrick was one of the "forgotten ten" that was hanged six weeks later and buried in Mountjoy.  When I was a kid, LaLa as we called her, would every so often take down her box of personal effects and let us kids see the medals & tricolour that were awarded to Sean posthumously.  She also had letters written by Patrick while in prison awaiting execution.  Subsequently, my uncle (her Grandson) passed all the material to the State.  I was quite young when she used to tell us about Sean's death so it's difficult to remember everything or indeed she may have censored some of it, however one aspect of it has always stuck in my mind.  Sean was shot in the back while trying to escape from the CH.  He was not killed instantly but managed (or was helped) to a hospital (don't know which one).  Apparently, the army/police went around the hospitals after the raid looking for wounded IRA men and while Sean was kept hidden wherever he was for maybe a day or so, he was eventually caught and taken away - whether he would have lived had he been treated or whether his death was hastened by those that arrested him, I don't know.  Even after 60 years, relating the story always made Lala cry - she must have had a very difficult life bringing up her kids on her own at such a young age (of course it's only in later years that I could appreciate this).  She also had the bullet that killed Sean, which had some of his bone embedded in it.

Offline Ms. Smokestoomuch

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 169
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Custom House Burning / John Wilson
« Reply #165 on: Monday 11 January 10 14:10 GMT (UK) »
I love when this happens on rootschat.

Welcome to rootschat Pcdl.
Rafter, Smith, Hession, O'Gara, Leech, Durkin, McManus, Eustace, O'Brien, Hyland, White, Hoey, Maher, Martin, McConaghy, Flynn, Davy.
Ballybough, Ballina, Ballyinaglea, Sligo , Casleconner, Killucan, Royal Canal. Ballymoney(wex).


Offline Ms. Smokestoomuch

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 169
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Custom House Burning / John Wilson
« Reply #166 on: Monday 11 January 10 14:23 GMT (UK) »
I've got the impression that getting medical attention was problematic at the time.
One example I can think of (though not the Customs House) was Dan Breen. He had to stay at a house on Botanic Ave. Glasnevin a number of days before they could get him admitted to the Mater Hospital without fear of arrest. And at that it put other volunteers at risk to get him there.
Rafter, Smith, Hession, O'Gara, Leech, Durkin, McManus, Eustace, O'Brien, Hyland, White, Hoey, Maher, Martin, McConaghy, Flynn, Davy.
Ballybough, Ballina, Ballyinaglea, Sligo , Casleconner, Killucan, Royal Canal. Ballymoney(wex).

Offline seanod

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 143
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Custom House Burning / John Wilson
« Reply #167 on: Monday 11 January 10 18:01 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to the thread, Pcdl. It's great to hear from you! My understanding was that Seán Doyle died in the hospital (Jervis Street, I think) on the 30th, but I may well have got that wrong. I'll have to look up my notes. He must have been lucid on the night of the attack, because apparently he kept asking if the lads were beaten. When he heard the sound of shots and explosions outside (the Dublin Brigade decided to go into action that night to hide the seriousness of their losses) he said "Thank God! The fight goes on!" I'll see what else I can dig up, but if it's true that he died after being taken out of the hospital, that really changes things! There is some suspicion that Patrick O'Reilly was shot after capture as well. As Ms Smoketoomuch says, I love it when things like this happen. Exchanges of information like this can really uncover sources of new information, so stay tuned!  :)

Offline Pcdl

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 13
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Custom House Burning / John Wilson
« Reply #168 on: Tuesday 12 January 10 00:41 GMT (UK) »
Ms. Smokestoomuch/Seanod - thanks for your welcome.  This is really interesting stuff.  As I mentioned, I'm recalling childhood memory so I may well be wrong about the exact circumstances of Seans death and I'd hate to distort or contaminate historical fact.  I'll check with the family and see if anyone can provide a more accurate account of what happened and if there's any other interesting/relevant information.  Sometimes it's the seemingly insignificant little pieces of information that makes the stories of these events so compelling and I suppose these are the things that are often forgotten.

Offline waiteohman

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,130
    • View Profile
Re: Custom House Burning / John Wilson
« Reply #169 on: Tuesday 12 January 10 02:39 GMT (UK) »
Hello Pcdl

The search I had done earlier was using term customs house.

Where's where in Dublin: a directory of historic locations, 1913-1923 : ...
http://www.rootschat.com/links/07lf/
page 6: 55 Amiens Street ...
page 55: ...  On 21st May 1921 a meeting was held here to finalize the plans to burn the Custom House. In attendance were Michael Collins, Sean Dowling, Richard Mulcahy, Ginger O'Connell and Oscar Traynor.

Further for: 55 Amiens Street: Tom Clarke's first shop; in 1910 the family moved to 77 Amiens Street. This was also the home of Sean Doyle, killed in the Custom House fire.

The book is a snippet view. It would be best to view the book. I doubt the meeting was held at 55 Amiens, saying this as the page 55 snippet entry has under it the entry for Gardiner Street. If the book is in order of streets alphabetically, it is highly unlikely to be Amiens. With the snippet view, I was not able to see the street address for this entry, other than knowing it included term customs house.

Linda
Dorman, Waite, Moore, Clark/Clarke, Neil, Rennie/Rainey, Brown, Mclean, Day, Millar/Miller, Gunion/Gunzion, Thomson, Black, Milvain, McCubbin, Steadman, Kirby

Offline seanod

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 143
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Custom House Burning / John Wilson
« Reply #170 on: Thursday 14 January 10 13:41 GMT (UK) »
Hi Pcdl, Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I have looked into the circumstances of your great-grandfather's death, and it seems that in this case the family tradition may be inaccurate. These things can sometimes be like Chinese whispers. As far as I can ascertain from newspaper and published reports, Doyle (he was known as John in many reports) was taken to the Mater Hospital (not Jervis Street) where he was admitted and operated on for a wound in his chest. The story about his saying "Thank God, Sister, the fight goes on" comes from a book called Dublin's Fighting Story. Should be available on Amazon. I have a vague recollection of reading in a printed account that the hospital was searched and that the staff managed to persuade the Auxiliaries that Doyle was suffering from an infectious disease, so that they didn't search him or find out about the gunshot wounds. I'll see if I can find out where that comes from. Anyway, a memorial notice from his family in 1922 states that he died on the 30th of May and the first report of his death was early in June. There was a report of the inquest in the Freemans Journal on the 3rd which shows that his wife didn't know where he was (or at least that's what she told the inquest) until the Sunday, when she found out he was in the Mater and visited, but he was rambling and feverish from pneumonia. He died on the Monday (Monday forenoon, it says, whatever that means) which accords with the memorial notice. The doctors then reported his death at Mountjoy Police Station that evening and the doctor got a real grilling from the judge about why he didn't report it to Dublin Castle as he was required to do. The medical staff showed incredible bravery in facing up to the authorities. I'll see what else I can find. Do you know anything about the Woods family and the Spanish Civil War, or is that a different branch of your family?  :)