Custom House Burning - Part 1 / John Wilson

[seanod]

Sorry Mr Smoketoomuch, I had assumed that this was a general list of names from that period and not specifically related to the Custom House but I was just saying that several of them were there and White was a possible. 

[seanod]

Incidentally, Joseph Murphy of 3 Upper Gardiner Street (at the time of his death in 1960) was also a member of E Company, Second Battalion.

[corisande]

Does the Special Branch Files CD that we have discussed help you with names at all. (or looking them up in the Nat Lib if you have access)

[seanod]

Apologies to Ms Smoketoomuch. I read it as Mr Smoketoomuch because of the Monty Python sketch.  Thanks to Corisande for pointing that out to me. Unfortunately I haven't got very far looking at these documents yet. The CD doesn't seem to be of much use as it mostly concerns the big players. There are some very useful documents at the National Archives which are the Witness Statements of people who were involved. Not everyone gave a witness statement but those who did often mention other individuals in passing. There are also pension details but I am not sure where these are kept and I also wonder how comprehensive they are. Finding out about these things is the next step. The most comprehensive books are the Who's Who of the Irish War of Independence and the Civil War and the book I have mentioned before, Dublin in Rebellion: A Directory.

[seanod]

I think I have found a reference to Michael Smith:

Irish Independent, July 05, 1940, page 8:

"THE DEFENCE FORCES
More Old IRA Men Join

A military guard of honour saluted members of the 2nd Battalion, Old Dublin Brigade, I.R.A. when 200 of them arrived at Collins Barracks last night to attest for service.

The men marched from Parnell Square headed by a band. They were cheered as they marched along O'Connell Street and the quays. They formed up on the barrack square, and, company by company, went through the formalities, being finally sworn in. They will do part-time training as second-line volunteers.

Those who joined up included: - Messrs F and L Henderson, H. Colley, P O'Daly, C. Goulding, T. Meldon, J McManus, S. Ward, S Brown, M. Smith, P.J. McGrath, J. Reid, T. Clarke, and J. Troy, secretary. "

There is a little more to the article but it doesn't really add much unless you are a relative of Major-General O'Neill or the O'Dalys.

[Ms. Smokestoomuch]

How can I thank you enough for that.
Can't believe you pulled that out of your hat.
Here's a picture to tie in. There's a whole other book on that subject I'm sure. I've always wondered, How did Anti-treaty feel doing this. I never heard what it was like for them. Was it a bit awkward or what. Was the other side from the civil war generally above in rank through experience and years service? Touchy subject I know. I've even got a bit of stick over him doing this. Maybe I shouldn't wonder so publicly.
The whole affair seems to be a proud moment judging by the Indo.
Thank you so much for finding that. Your a diamond.

[seanod]

You're welcome! I'm glad that I can add him to my Custom House list. That whole area of what people did in the Second World War, how they responded, and how they felt about the pro-Treaty forces is really interesting. As you say, there is plenty of material for a book there. (To be honest, I have seen about five subjects for books since I started on this research). And thanks for sharing the copy of the oath with us - it's amazing to read about an oath in an old newspaper and then see a copy of it a couple of hours later! The wonders of modern technology ...

[seanod]

By the way, did you notice the date on that document? It seems strange that they took the oath in July and it was signed by Holohan in December. Maybe they had to go through the training before the whole thing was ratified.
Is there anyone out there who knows anything about a Frank Concannon or Francis Concannon who was a member of the Second Battalion and died in 1940? Someone posted a message about him elsewhere on an article about the Custom House but they didn't say whether he was at the Custom House or not. He was certainly involved in the Easter Rising. I would like to hear from the person who posted the message. And finally, anyone see the Who Do You Think You Are programme with Dermot Gavin last night on RTE? I only caught the last ten minutes of it, but they were looking at his grandfather's application for a pension for his W of I service (which was refused) at Cathal Brugha Barracks.

[Ms. Smokestoomuch]

Yes seen that last night.
It never really went into why someone like that was refused.
I wonder how many had problems with the pension.
Unless he had no one who could testify he was involved in the activities he had claimed to be involved with.
The fact that they didn't go into an explanation on the programme makes me wonder was there an obvious reason why it was rejected.
My own grandfather contested his grade and it was brought up a grade. I wondered was there a bit of politics still hanging about or was it very strict due to false claims.