Custom House Burning - Part 1 / John Wilson

[Ms. Smokestoomuch]

As time goes on the neutral voice grows faint.
Not trying to be poetic, but it's hard to open a history book and see evidence of it today.
The drama and bitterness writes better I guess.
If I could guess human nature I'd say there may have been a strong aversion to the futility.
But the books we're left with doesn't reflect it.

With time the history of the north of Ireland will no doubt only reflect on  the divisions and not on how tired people were facing into each day of it.

[seanod]

Amen to that (the bit about being tired of the Troubles) though the Newry business shows we're not out of the woods yet. 

[Ms. Smokestoomuch]

Sorry
I bummed everyone out.
That tired 1980s feeling was back with me yesterday too.

I'll drag it back on to the the current issue on the tread.
The document above.
The support base is an issue really that, to my eyes, may be at the heart of it's origins. If you just think about the neutral watching executions and other very emotive  headlines.
I think I read somewhere (maybe it was in the dail debates) that the free state government at the time were trying to get the press to change their language when covering stories. Certain teams were to be avoided. 
Wish I could find it now, I can't remember was it the term "irregulars" or "IRA"  that they took issue with.
Propaganda from all side was probably coming hard and fast. Another interesting book there, I'd say.

[seanod]

Definitely - you could do a very thick book on the language of Anglo-Irish relations and I think comparing it to the rhetoric of the current War on Terror would be material for another one!

Private 1st Class - if you are still following this thread, you see the list here which you posted a while back:

Hi some of the men who were on the Custom House Job.
Frank Bolster
Paddy Cadwell
Frank Flood
Tom Flood
Michael Joe Gilhooly
Joe Gilfoyle
Joe Leonard
Tom Lillis
Gus Murphy
George Nolan
Frank Saurin
Bill Stapleton
Frank Thornton
Liam Tobin
Oscar Traynor
James Tully
Mick Lane
Edward Lane  These names you can add to your list.
 I have a lot of these names already but I was wondering about a few of them like Saurin, Tobin and Thornton. How are you sure they were present? Do you have any information about what role they had in the attack, where they were and how they got away? Anything would be helpful.

[Gavdonnelly]

Seanod,

You can add Thomas Donnelly to that list aswell. I was on this thread a while back and I received written documentation from the Department of Defence highlighting the fact that he was part of the 2nd battalion initial attack on the CH.

unfortunately I don't have details of exactly what he did but you can be sure he was there when it all kicked off!

[Private 1st class]

Hi , My father is Edward Lane. Mick Lane is his brother.I attended a lot of there gatherings as a child and a young adult.  I would have done the bugle calls at a lot of there funerals. My father was the liason officer first for the 2nd battalion and later as they got old he looked after the whole of the Dublin Brigade along with his life long friend Vinny Byrne. In the later days he often travled in the hearse as the men got to know him. He did not driveI spent many hours in 196 Pearse St . As a founder member of the NRPAI. Igot them to hold there meetings there. So fri Nights and Sunday mornings were spent there. I was always asking questions. and over the years I built up a picture of what it was like in those times. I listened to the hot and hard rows that would brake out every so often. When the lease was up and the College took back 196 we moved over to 51 Parnell Sq, I found that if they though you were interested they would talk after some time.Joe ( joseph) Gilhooly was in cell 19 of section B of Kilmainham Jail on the 24th July 1921 He wrote the following  three single lines one under the other the fourth states " From one of the boys". When the work to repair the jail was started. groups of them would would arrive to look at the place.. I would ask them to go to the cell they were in. Some times they could and some times not. Or if they had moved cell it would cause a problem. I wrote it into a note book and gave it to one of the men. I have never seen it since. Frank Bolster was very good at drawing.

[seanod]

Hi, I was away there for a few days. I could have found an internet connection if I'd wanted to but decided to leave it for a while! Anyway, thanks to Gavdonnelly for that. I'll include him on the list. Any further information about him? Also thanks to Private First Class. You must have a connection to the events of that time which very few other people have, so stick with the thread and contribute as much as you can. Anything you remember which might be of interest, remember to post it here! Did anyone ever mention anyone called Tallon or Murran? They were on the Memorial Committee but I don't know much about them. By the way, elsewhere you mentioned a John Doyle, who was not the same as Seán Doyle. John Doyle might be the same as the Johnny Doyle who fired the first shells into the Four Courts and who is mentioned in several sources. What do you think? 

[dublinbook1916]

Seanod this may interest you:
Where's where in Dublin: a directory of historic locations, 1913-1923 : ...
http://www.rootschat.com/links/07lf/
page 6: 55 Amiens Street ...
page 55: ...  On 21st May 1921 a meeting was held here to finalize the plans to burn the Custom House. In attendance were Michael Collins, Sean Dowling, Richard Mulcahy, Ginger O'Connell and Oscar Traynor.

Hi Linda, Thanks for that. I thought this was another version of the book I've mentioned before, Dublin in Rebellion, but it doesn't give the same information. The Dublin in Rebellion book says that 55 Amiens street was the home of Seán Doyle, who was killed at the CH, but there is no mention of the meeting. I'll have to get that book. 



This was posted in Dec. by Linda

I am the author of both books, and would be happy to answer questions if I can - though the info on this site is marvellous.

Also I have a regular spot on Talking History on Newstalk and the May segment is to include the burning of the Custom House.  The segment is the first Sunday every month, and starts about 8:45 pm.

[Gary Deering]

Hi Joseph & welcome ! I was going to Email you about this but this is as good a place as any to ask, does the name Dan Hannon ring a bell ? Johnny Wilson was a friend of his & Married into the family.I know Dan Fought in the War of Independence & the Civil War I am just wondering if you ever came across his name in your research !