Custom House Burning - Part 1 / John Wilson

[seanod]

Fascinating! I wonder if anyone has done a study of quite how much these changes of power impacted on the ordinary soldiers. Did they leave in droves or was the process more of a blending of the old with the new? And were disaffected ex-members of the armed forces a major factor in the growth of the Blueshirt movement around that time, as they were in the growth of fascist movements in other countries? I'll have to do some background reading ...

[Gary Deering]

I was asking my cousin the same question on Monday. Again I wonder if there is a list of Blueshirts ?My Granfather started off in the British Army from 1918 to 1922,then he was in the Freestate Army from 1922 to 1933.He also was a strong  fine gael supporter till his death,it makes the right background for a Blueshirt!

[seanod]

Gary has sent me a very interesting link to another discussion where someone mentioned that their grandfather was at the Custom House and in the Second Battalion and that he was captured and taken to Kilmainham after. His name was William Donegan. I had his name already but all I had was this:

On May 25th. 1952, the annual re-union and dinner of the men who fought at the CH was held in the Four Provinces House. 50 veterans attended. Oscar Traynor, then Minister for Defence, attended the dinner and proposed the toast, “Éire”. Mr. W Donegan presided. Members of the committee present were P. Farrell; J. Foley, C. Daly, C. Ryan and P. Lawson.

So I can now add that he was there, that he belonged to the Second Batt. and that he was captured. All very useful. Thanks again Gary.  Any chance any of his family are following this?

[Gary Deering]

No Problem Sean, Now I want to pick your brain again,Have you any idea what the age limit was in the Freestate army in 1922 ? I was looking for that information when I came across that forum.

[dc51]

Hello guys,
This is a great forum, I only came across it by accident as a link from something else.
As soon as I started to browse I found some great family connections.
I hadn't actually read this thread until yesterday and its very interesting. It would seem, that  after the bitter feelings and divisions of the civil war, those, particularly on the republican side must have had very little to celebrate. Considering the momentous event that had just come about. Independence after about 700 years and yet it seems that the vast number of the volunteers just quietly disappeared into anonymity. But for a small few who wrote their stories, eg. (Dan Breen and Tom Barry) so much has been left untold.
 My own Grandfather was a volunteer and spent over a year in an internment camp. On release after the treaty, but as the civil war was looming, He was offered a commission in the new free state army, which he declined as he not prepared to fight against his own.
I would hope that there are many stories, or bits of stories, out there to be told. Could this forum be the vehicle to bring these stories together and also link the people who were actually involved ?
DC

[Gary Deering]

Hello & Welcome DC, I think your Granfather was what they called neutral IRA & nothing wrong with that ! maybe it was the best side to be on, my own family on both sides where Freestate.

[Ms. Smokestoomuch]

I think there is a huge hole in the story because we haven't listened to those that couldn't take a side in the civil war.
It makes prefect sense to me. I can't look at it and honestly say I feel comfortable on any side. But I'm probably a product of my time. My childhood filled with death up the north. I remember it being completely hopeless and futile.
My grandfather had gone anti treat but at the end of his life in the early 60s he questioned it more.
He even had a row with Dev.
And he didn't see the troubles.
But it is weird for me really to find that the neutral IRA were not more outspoken.

Makes me think we can never look back and know for sure how and what motivated peoples feelings.
I hope the likes of DC51 grandfather's views are explored more.

[seanod]

Hi, In reply to Gary first, I imagine the official age was somewhere around 18, but I haven't come across any recruiting adverts which might give that information. I'll keep looking. I agree entirely with the other comments, and the saddest thing about looking at the history of those years is the way that people who fought and died against a common enemy ended up brutally murdering each other. People who were active at the Custom House fought for both sides in the Civil War, and of course some of them like Ned Breslin were involved in the horrific incidents in Munster like Ballyseedy Cross. Still others left Ireland around that time and never came back. As Ms Smoketoomuch says, it is easy to look back on those times and criticise the insanity of it. Like what happened in the north, there was just a momentum and an inevitability about the way things went and probably nobody could have stopped the war. We never really produced any Gandhis in this country ...

[Gary Deering]

I have to say I agree Sean, sorry the question I was asking I may have put it wrong, I am trying to work out the oldest recuits that the Freestate army would have taken, There has to be recruiting posters somewhere online! or even newspaper adverts ?