Penzance area - John Broad READ

[Roadshow]

Hi all,

I am helping my friend with his family tree and despite the wealth of information for Cornwall online, this character has me absolutely stumped. I wonder if any of you might be able to help solve this mystery for us.

We have located him on the census for 1901, 1891, 1881, and 1871, and also his marriage on the Cornwall OPC site. On the census his place of birth is recorded as Week St Mary, Cornwall. The Census suggests his birth is 1828/9, but his marriage suggests 1830/31.

The Cornwall OPC transcription of his marriage is:

29 Nov 1863 - Madron, Cornwall - John Broad Read, 32, widower, labourer, Penzance, father William Read, labourer, to Mary Jane Thomas, 28, widow, of Madron, father Thomas Olds, Cordwainer, by Banns, he signed, she made her mark, witnessed by John Richards and Fred A Cocks

So giving us a father William Read.

However, the only near-suitable baptism I can find in St Mary Weeks is of a John Broad on 12 Oct 1827, s/o William and Mary

I cannot find any other instances of the name John Broad Read, nor can I locate a marriage linking the names Broad and Read.

I am really stuck.

Any help in locating his birth, family, first marriage or appearance on the 1841, 1851 and 1861 census would be very much appreciated.

Thank you.

[Barbara F]

Hello Roadshow

Like you, I can't find a John Read that fits the bill before 1871.

I do wonder whether we should be looking for a John Broad instead.

I note that he consistently gives his birthplace as Week St Mary and that on a couple of the censuses he is noted as a Stone Labourer or similar.

Looking at the 1851 census there is a family in St Teath with a suitably aged John Broad born in Week St Mary - parents William and Mary.  William and John are both shown as Stone Sawyers. The ref is HO107 1898 f 276 (NB check the index for Bread rather than Broad!).

No idea at the moment why he should have added Read onto his name but I think it would be worth checking him out in the other censuses. 


Barbara

[Barbara F]

A couple of exrta items to think about!

There is a John Broad married to Elizabeth in St Teath in the 1861 census.

Free BMD has:

Marriages Mar 1854   
Broad  John    Camelford  5c 35   
Chapman  Elizabeth     Camelford  5c 35   
Copp  Robert     Camelford  5c 35   
Miller  Maria     Camelford  5c 35

Deaths Dec 1862  BROAD  Elizabeth     Camelford  5c 12


Cornwall OPC site indicates

Elizabeth Broad aged 29 buried in St Teath 15 Dec 1862 residence Medrose.

Have to go out soon but will check further a bit later.

Barbara

[Roadshow]

Hello Roadshow

Like you, I can't find a John Read that fits the bill before 1871.

I do wonder whether we should be looking for a John Broad instead.

I note that he consistently gives his birthplace as Week St Mary and that on a couple of the censuses he is noted as a Stone Labourer or similar.

Looking at the 1851 census there is a family in St Teath with a suitably aged John Broad born in Week St Mary - parents William and Mary.  William and John are both shown as Stone Sawyers. The ref is HO107 1898 f 276 (NB check the index for Bread rather than Broad!).

No idea at the moment why he should have added Read onto his name but I think it would be worth checking him out in the other censuses. 


Barbara

Ah, how clever to think John B Read might be transcribed as John Bread!

Now this is interesting, because the family you have identified is the family who had the child John Broad I described in my original post. They also had a child Melony/Mellony and I had done searches using her name too, in the hope of spotting if this was the right chap, but of course she was also wrongly transcribed.

It strikes me that if you were John Broad and somebody seeing it written had believed you were John Bread, it might not be beyond the realms of possibility that they might think you were John B Read? And asking what the B stood for, Broad, you'd become John Broad Read. I know it's stupid, but it has a certain appeal.

The marriage is appealing too, but how to be sure it's our bloke? I've found it (or at least the banns) on the Online Parish Clerk site, which gives date 12 Feb and their residence as St Teath, but no names of parents or witnesses.

Many thanks for the assistance thus far.

[Barbara F]

Hi again

Well. I had't thought of B Read converting to Bread!  I just considered that the man might have originally been John Broad 

What do you think about the marriage I found to Elizabeth Chapman and her death on 1862?

Barbara

[Roadshow]

Hi again

Well. I had't thought of B Read converting to Bread!  I just considered that the man might have originally been John Broad 

What do you think about the marriage I found to Elizabeth Chapman and her death on 1862?

Barbara

Sorry, was editing my previous post and you had already responded. The marriage looks good, I'll try and persuade my friend to order a copy certificate.

It is just having READ tagged on the end of the name that casts doubt. Where the hell does it come from?

[Barbara F]

I had thought that perhaps John was born before the marriage of his parents.  Not sure whether that fits in this case.

I can't see a marriage of a William Broad to a Mary Read on Cornwall opc or on the IGI. However the 1851 census indicates that Mary was born in Devon so maybe the marriage took place in her parish?

Barbara

[Roadshow]

I had thought that perhaps John was born before the marriage of his parents.  Not sure whether that fits in this case.

I can't see a marriage of a William Broad to a Mary Read on Cornwall opc or on the IGI. However the 1851 census indicates that Mary was born in Devon so maybe the marriage took place in her parish?

Barbara

The place of birth is given as North Petherwin, which is covered by the Cornwall OPC, but which doesn't seem to have doumented marriages prior to 1837. So I think that is a dead end for now.

[Roadshow]

This is probably just pouring confusion on already muddied waters, but there is a non-conformist baptism in North Petherwin in 1836, transcribed by the OPC as follows:
Baptisms (Non Conformist) - Details of record ID 25924:
Kilkhampton Wesleyan Circuit
28-Feb 1836
at Canworthy Water Chapel
William Reed BROAD
2 Feb 1836
s of
William
Mary
North Petherwin Devon
labourer

Not sure that gets us anywhere, but it is another person with the names linked, all be it in the reverse order.