Author Topic: Deb D's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In.  (Read 25496 times)

Offline Denise Thompson

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Re: Deb D's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In.
« Reply #36 on: Thursday 10 September 09 08:33 BST (UK) »
Hi Deb and all the contributors to this Scavenger Hunt,
I have just read all the messages and will make a couple of comments.
When the "Thames" left Port Phillip in January 1858 bound for London there were only 15 passengers, all stated to be going to London. As well as "25" years old Jane Brown, there was also "32" years old J WALLIS. The ages are often incorrect on the shipping lists. Perhaps J Wallis is every bit as important to us as Jane Brown as there seemed to be a family link between the Wallis and Shores families. What we need is the itinerary of the Thames to find out just where the ship visited and where Duncan Dunbar Tatham may have disembarked, if he were in fact on board. As well, I should pay a visit to Geelong to search their records, in the hope that I can find the last known reference to him in Victoria. You and I should start saving our pennies! I have just calculated that we are 5th cousins.
As for William Smith Brown, Phoebe Tatham and their family, there seems to have been a court case over Duncan Dunbar junior's Will as it related to the terms of the trust. I haven't worked it out, but the reference at the National Archives gives a hint:
"Item details C 16/60/B67
Cause number: 1862 B67.
Short title: Brown v Gellatly.
Documents: Bill only.
Plaintiffs: William Smith Brown.
Defendants: Edward Gellatly and Phoebe Dunbar Brown, Duncan Brown, William Edward Brown, Margaret Emily Brown, Francis Dixon Brown, Arthur Kaye Brown, John Archibald Dunbar Dunbar, infants."

As for their children, Phoebe Dunbar Brown died unmarried at Fulham on 15 April 1926. She was living at Otto House West Kensington, which I understand was then a "lunatic asylum."
Duncan Brown died at Digswell Welwyn on 2 June 1891.
William Edward Brown I think married Laura Whitaker in 1880 and they had a daughter Dorothy Brown in 1886. Perhaps William Edward Brown was a Lieutenant (refer London Gazette).
Margaret Emily Brown profited handsomely from Duncan Dunbar's Will. References to her and her husband and children are online on the Libindx website in Moray, Scotland.
Francis Dixon Brown married Agnes Mary Quain, and this has been covered already. Francis Dixon Brown was a Director of a Mining Company with its headquarters at 1 Victoria St, Westminster.
Arthur Kaye Brown was an engineer, and he died at Poole, Dorset on 18 June 1900.

So...everything we ever wanted to know about the Browns and no new revelations about DDT or his son DJT! As usual the contributors to Rootschat have been so generous with their time and information, so thanks to all
Regards, Denise

 




Offline Tephra

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Re: Deb D's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In.
« Reply #37 on: Thursday 10 September 09 08:44 BST (UK) »



Wow Denise, Deb will be delighted when she reads your post.    5th cousins..........that's great.     ;D ;D ;D


Barbara
Onley/Only/Olney In Islington.<br />Wallwork In Bolton and Walkden<br />Lamb In Bolton and Ireland<br />Grundy In Bolton<br />Blackledge In Bolton<br />Osbaldeston  ?? ??<br />Barnett in Islington<br />Binyon in Islington
Kitchen in Bolton
Parker in Bolton

Offline Denise Thompson

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Re: Deb D's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In.
« Reply #38 on: Thursday 10 September 09 10:08 BST (UK) »
Hi Barbara,
Deb and I are great mates and we are in constant contact, sharing our research as we go. I decided it was about time I confirmed our relationship, hence the 5th cousin mention. Sometimes I can't remember whether I have told her everything, as is the case with the Brown family research. Since other contributors are involved in the discussion I thought I should share it with everyone. Duncan Dunbar Tatham has been driving us and others crazy for some time, and more power to Deb for having this Scavenger Hunt.
Regards,
Denise

Offline Tephra

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Re: Deb D's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In.
« Reply #39 on: Thursday 10 September 09 10:16 BST (UK) »



She's not done too bad, there are a few extra pointers for her......and for you of course.   The good thing is the Hunt remains open, so anyone googling the name will be able to see the link and hopefully add their two bobs worth       ;D ;D


Barbara
Onley/Only/Olney In Islington.<br />Wallwork In Bolton and Walkden<br />Lamb In Bolton and Ireland<br />Grundy In Bolton<br />Blackledge In Bolton<br />Osbaldeston  ?? ??<br />Barnett in Islington<br />Binyon in Islington
Kitchen in Bolton
Parker in Bolton


Offline Deb D

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Re: Deb D's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In.
« Reply #40 on: Thursday 10 September 09 14:28 BST (UK) »
Hello again, everybody - and Hi Denise!

Yes, Denise and I are old cronies ... along with another couple of distant cousins, we've all had a go at finding DDT and DJT - we particularly like the nickname "DDT" for this fellow, because he's as big a nuisance as the pesticide!

I've forgotten who it was who had a quick look in the 1911 Census for DJT ... I'm wondering whether there's been time to have a better look since then?  The fellow who sailed into Avonmouth, Bristol in 1910 has me fascinated; - it'd be really nice if we could find him at home in Blighty in 1911.  Meanwhile, I'll keep trawling through FreeBMD and the Library's Ancestry link (*sigh!*)

Thanks again to everyone who's played detective for us :)

Deb
I live in Sydney, Australia, and I'm researching: Powell, Tatham, Dunbar, Dixon, Mackwood, Kinnear, Mitchell, Morgan, Delves, & Anderson

Offline Joffy

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Re: Deb D's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In.
« Reply #41 on: Sunday 13 September 09 00:50 BST (UK) »
I am a direct descendant of James Molison, the man who blew up Bridge Street in Sydney.  He and Alexander Strachan Molison were brothers.  James Molison was my g-g-grandfather.  I am also related directly to Duncan Dunbar, and as a consequence directly or through marriage to the Shores, Tathams, Forsyths, Browns, von und zu Gilsas and Massons, and numerous others.

Below are my notes of Duncan Dunbar Tatham

IS DESCRIBED IN THE TATHAM FAMILY TREE FROM 1856 AS 'NOW OF GEELONG.' VICTORIA.

 "Times" citation, dated Friday, Jul 19, 1844 is of interest. The Thames Police arrested two "dissolute-looking young men",  and  Mr D. Tatham, of Newby Place, Poplar, clerk to Dunbar and Sons was called to give evidence on oath. This case involved Tatham in a personal way and I will send the full transcription in another post

"The Times", Friday, July 19, 1844:
Category: Law
"THAMES POLICE- Two dissolute-looking young men, named John Cowhurst and Henry Burrell, were charged with endeavouring to extort money under the following circumstances:-
Mr D. Tatham, of Newby-place, Poplar, clerk to Dunbar and Sons, stated, that on the previous evening he was walking with a young lady down Copperas-wall, Poplar, and they were followed by some men and boys, the two prisoners being of the party. When they got further on they sat on a bank to rest, and the lady, suffering from a head-ache, took off her bonnet. Hearing a noise behind, complainant turned round and saw the prisoners and four others, who threatened him with exposure if he did not give them money for beer. Being conscious that they could not say anything of which he needed to be afraid or ashamed, he walked away with his companion, and steadily refused to comply with their request. Still, however, they pursued, and threatened to follow him all the way home. As they went along he met with a constable, and the prisoners were taken into custody.
   The prisoners insisted that they caught the lady and gentleman in a very indecent position, the latter having her bonnet and shawl off. They threatened to give them into custody for indecent exposure, and followed them for that purpose, but the complainant meeting a constable preferred the first charge. They denied that any threats had been used for the purpose of extorting money, but Burrell admitted having heard some mention of beer.
  Mr Tatham solemnly asserted on his oath that no indecent liberties had been taken, and that the lady who accompanied him was most respectable.
   The prisoners were ordered to put in bail for their good behaviour."


SOME NOTES FROM MALCOLM ELMSLIE THROW SOME LIGHT ON THIS GUY.
ON 17 MAY 1845 HE WENT AS A MIDSHIPMAN ON THE SEA PARK TO HONG KONG, AND WAS INTRODUCED TO JARDINE MATHIESON & CO AS DUNCAN DUNBAR'S NEPHEW. HE WAS THEN 21 OR SO.  ON 24 APRIL 1847 'DUNCAN DUNBAR WAS SHOCKED TO LEARN THAT DDT HAD DRAWN TWO BILLS OF EXCHANGE ON DUNBAR IN FAVOUR OF JARDINE MATHIESON & CO WHICH WERE BEING PRESENTED FOR PAYMENT.  DDT HAD NO AUTHORITY TO DO SO.'

John Dunbar left him 500 pounds under his will in 1845 to be paid when Duncan attained 21 years.

DUNCAN DUNBAR LEFT A TRUST FUND FOR THE CHILDREN in his will dated 1862, AND UNDERSTANDABLY BY-PASSED DDT.  WHAT HAPPENED TO DDT IS NOT KNOWN.  HE APPEARS TO HAVE DESERTED HIS WIFE AND CHILDREN AND NOT RETURNED TO ENGLAND TO FACE THE MUSIC.


This entry is a little puzzling from IGI.  No doubt the right parents, the date is the puzzle.

Justina <Tatham> 
  Christening:  08 JUL 1862   St Mary'S, Walthamstow, Essex, England
Parents:
  Father:  Duncan Dunbar Tatham  Family

Regards

Joffy

Offline Tephra

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Re: Deb D's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In.
« Reply #42 on: Sunday 13 September 09 05:23 BST (UK) »



Hi Joffy and a very warm welcome to RootsChat.

Deb will be delighted with your post, I'm sure she'll be in contact with you.

Barbara
Onley/Only/Olney In Islington.<br />Wallwork In Bolton and Walkden<br />Lamb In Bolton and Ireland<br />Grundy In Bolton<br />Blackledge In Bolton<br />Osbaldeston  ?? ??<br />Barnett in Islington<br />Binyon in Islington
Kitchen in Bolton
Parker in Bolton

Offline Denise Thompson

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Re: Deb D's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In.
« Reply #43 on: Sunday 13 September 09 08:53 BST (UK) »
Hello Joffy,
How exciting to find another researcher for this extensive family. As I live in Sydney I am most interested that James Molison blew up Bridge Street. I assume it was accidental!
If you search all 85 pages or so of the June 2005 Challenge you will find information relating to Duncan Dunbar's wife and children. His wife Mary Ann died of Dropsy and is buried in Geelong, Victoria. Both his children were born in Victoria, but it is likely that Justina was not baptised, or was re-baptised in Walthamstow in 1862 as you have noted.
I knew about Duncan's time in Hong Kong but I did not have the name or date of the ship he travelled on. I am so pleased you have been able to give us this extra information. Can you confirm that Malcolm Elmslie who provided this is the son of Alan and Mary Elmslie? I would very much like to contact him.
Was the John Dunbar who left DDT 500 pounds in 1845 living in England or Scotland?
I descend from John Korff and his wife Mary Gordon who lived in Sydney. Mary was a sister of Elizabeth Gordon, the stepmother of Duncan Dunbar Tatham. Their son Frederick James Robert Korff was a mariner who made frequent trips between Sydney and Melbourne. DDT could therefore have travelled without necessarily going through the usual procedures for passengers.



Offline Joffy

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Re: Deb D's Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In.
« Reply #44 on: Sunday 13 September 09 13:33 BST (UK) »
Yep.  It was Malcolm.  Deb, the Shores, Bormans and Rhodes (Molison) had a reunion in Auckland in 2005.  Looking to have another one.  The Dunbar captains stick together even 150 years later.

Look at the following from Michael Borman to me last week!



 


~~~~~~~~

From: Michael (Mike) Borman
Sent: Monday, 31 August 2009 9:10 PM
To: Michael Rhodes
Subject: Re: Norsewood 2-21 January 2010

 

Good to hear from you Michael and thanks for the kind invitation to join you at Norsewood which we would love to take you up on.  There are a couple of issues which have contrived to make our future movements rather uncertain and we are at present somewhat unsure whether or not we shall be able to make it to NZ at all this year.  However, we shall certainly be in touch as soon as we know what's happening.

 

You may remember that I wrote earlier in the year (or was it last year) saying that I had been afflicted by this ailment which you diagnosed as Ross River disease. Disappointingly, this turned out to be rather a savage attack of arthritis in the hip and spine and, I suspect among other sites as well.  However the first has now been dealt with and I am now in recovery from a total new hip, which will probably be sufficient to see me out.  The spine business is under review and I am awaiting the outcome of an MRI scan to determine the next move... there is a 95% bet that this will not need surgical intervention, and I am very hopeful that we will be able to fly off by mid-November instead of our usual mid-October departure, and continue with any treatment in NZ.

 

You will be interested to know that the delay is only in part due to the medics and is primarily because the unit historian of Strachan's old AOP unit, which is still flying, presently in Helmand Province, has arranged a memorial visit to France, Holland and Germany, during which 30 odd members of the unit will go to Caen initially and visit each cemetery in which former members of the unit are interred following the advance through France, Belgium and Holland from Normandy to the Rhine crossings.  Their journey will end at Reichswald Forest War Cemetery with a short ceremony and squadron fly-past at Strachan's graveside on November 11th, which is Remembrance Day in GB.  Carol and I will be attending this last ceremony as representatives of Strachan's family.  The plan is for this to be held at 1100, a significant time representing the date/time 1100/11/11 or 'Poppy Day'.

 

It's been a strange year with my normal range of activities suddenly curtailed.  I thought for a few months that, failing any positive diagnosis from the medics in NZ, I could push my way through the pain it but it became so intolerable that I was pretty well chair-bound in the end.  Anyway I was fortunate, living where we do, that once I had received a positive diagnosis, the operation followed quite quickly and I am now in the situation where the back originating pain is worse than the hip.

wILLIAM sTRACHAN mOLISON- one of only 44 awarded the DFC and Bar.  2 under the VC.  A wonderfully brave man.