A Little Help

[wrudge]

Hello All,

I'm hoping some of the experts here can point me in the right direction. I've hit a snag in my research and don't know where to go next. Here is what I have:

I started with my great great grandfather:
William Rudge (B 1858 - GRO Mar 1858 District:Berkhamsted Vol:3a Page:332)
(I ordered the certificate which gave me his parents names: John Rudge and Julia Barber)

John Rudge (B abt 1831 according to marriage cert)
Marries Julia Barber (18 Aug 1856 - GRO Sep 1856 District:Berkhampstead Vol:3a) I ordered this certificate which gave me John's father as Samuel Rudge and Julia's father as Mesech Barber (Deceased at time of marriage)

They have 2 other children besides my great great grandfather:
Samuel Edward (B 1856 - Possible GRO Dec 1856 District:Berkhamstead Vol:3a Page:202)

Ann Matilda (B 1860 - Possible GRO Jun 1860 District:Berkhamstead Vol:3a Page:3_5)

Now my question is this how can I get pre-1837 information and how can I confirm it. I do not have a solid birth date for John Rudge or location, but using some of the information and tips on this site I found the following information on familysearch.org (Batch # C010243):

Possible brother/sisters and John Rudge himself:

Edward Rudge
Male
Christening:      
13 JUN 1813      All Saints, West Bromwich, Stafford, England
Father: Samuel Rudge
Mother: Mary

Thomas Rudge
Male
Christening:      
10 SEP 1815      All Saints, West Bromwich, Stafford, England
Father: Samuel Rudge
Mother: Mary

Mary Rudge
Female
Christening:      
16 NOV 1817      All Saints, West Bromwich, Stafford, England
Father: Samuel Rudge
Mother: Mary

Samuel Rudge
Male
Christening:      
27 AUG 1820      All Saints, West Bromwich, Stafford, England
Father: Samuel
Mother: Mary

Joseph RUDGE
Male
Christening:      
18 SEP 1825      All Saints, West Bromwich, Stafford, England
Father: Samuel Rudge
Mother: Mary

Ann Rudge
Female
Christening:      
24 AUG 1828      All Saints, West Bromwich, Stafford, England
Father: Samuel Rudge
Mother: Mary

JOHN RUDGE
Male
Christening:      
27 FEB 1831      All Saints, West Bromwich, Stafford, England
Father: Samuel Rudge
Mother: Mary

Hannah Rudge
Female
Christening:      
21 JUL 1833      All Saints, West Bromwich, Stafford, England
Father: Samuel Rudge
Mother: Mary
Possible Marriage:
- International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Marriage: 22 OCT 1856 Tring, Hertford, England
Spouse: John Gill
Possible GRO for Marriage:
Dec 1856 District: Berkhampstead Vol: 3a Page: 454

I did find this family in the 1851 England census but how do I know if it is my great great grandfathers family or the wrong John Rudge:
HO107/2084/576 p 41
I do see some similarities between occupations (Boatsman)

I also found this (using batch #M041791)
Samuel Rudge
Marries Mary Lighham (07 NOV 1809      Saint Phillips, Birmingham, Warwick, England) - could these be John Rudge's parents?

I'd really like to break the barrier into the 1700's and continue my research, but don't want to just make assumptions and go down the wrong paths.

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

[Cathymjp]

Hi wrudge,

Welcome to Rootschat. 

Have you tried any of the earlier census i.e . 1841 and 1851 to help confirm parents?

The family search records are very useful, but I always like to confirm the entries on the church registers held at the relevant County Records Offices.  It can also be helpful to try to find if they have made a Will also.  Sometimes tracing where families are buried can give valuable information off gravestones. Do you know the occupations for them.

Cathy

[wrudge]

Hi Cathy,

The only early census I found was the 1851 census that shows:

Samuel Rudge     62 (1789) Boat Owner
Mary Rudge    56 (1795)
Thomas Rudge    36 (1815) Boatman Stafford West Bromwich
Samuel Rudge    34 (1817) Boatman Stafford West Bromwich
John Rudge    19 (1832) Boatman Stafford West Bromwich
Hannah Rudge    17 (1834) Stafford West Bromwich
Richard Hambidge    21 servant
John Gibbons    13 servant
Joseph Mason    15 servant
Jesse Hoult    16 servant

However I could not make out the birthplaces for Samuel or Mary.

The wedding certificate for John and Julia has John and Samuel both listed as Boatman.

Bill

[Cathymjp]

Hi Bill,

Having looked at the census could Samuel have been born in Sutton Warwick?    The County appears to be put first followed by the actual town.  Mary's looks as if it could be Holbury in Shropshire.    It does look as if this family in 1851 could be who you looking for.   Can't find them in 1841 at the moment though.

Cathy

[wrudge]

I'm afraid I'm from the States and don't know much about England geography. It hampers my research not knowing if towns/counties are near each other, but I will look into Sutton Warwick. Thanks for the help.

[DMP]

Hi
looks like Mary born Shropshire Holbury??
and i also think Samuel was born Warwick Sutton

Donna

[Cathymjp]

Hi Bill,

Shropshire, Staffordshire and Warwickshire are in the centre of England. They are served by a very good canal network which would tie up with their occupations.

Cathy

[wrudge]

So it is possible that the marriage I had in the first post could be correct:

Samuel Rudge
Marries Mary Lighham (07 NOV 1809      Saint Phillips, Birmingham, Warwick, England)

Looking at the records for Warwick I also found this christening for Samuel Rudge:

05 JUN 1789      Saint Martin, Birmingham, Warwick, England

Thanks for the help again with the birthplaces, I had the census but didn't think to look at those.

[sdweatherman]

Hey Bill,
Was googling rudge/tring and your thread from rootschat popped up. Great work on trying to get through the brick wall of John Rudge. I was just corresponding with Linda last month about starting to order some key documents like John and Julia's marriage certificate. I see you already have done that. I'm disappointed that there was not more info on John and his father. Makes for a little more of a challenge. How easy/difficult was it to order the certificates, and how much did they cost? We should keep in touch on what certificates have been ordered, so that we do not duplicate our efforts. Have you ordered our great grandfather William's birth certificate yet? I was concerned about that link because it looks like there were two William Rudges born at St. Pancras about the same time. Anyway, keep in touch,
Scott Rudge.

William Rudge->Stanley Frederick Rudge->Stanley James Rudge-> Scott Rudge.