Earliest date 1720...how do I go back further?

[Daisy Loo]

Hi everyone...

I have confirmed my HILLSDON/HILSDEN line back as far as 1720 - which is to say that 1720 was the last confirmed date of a marriage of Thomas Hillsdon to an Elizabeth Clisbey, in Waddesdon, Bucks.  I have Thomas' death in 1769, where it is written in the Parish records that he was 78, making his birth in or around 1691. 

But I can't find his birth.  It appears he wwas one of the first Hillsdon's to live in Waddesdon, and I could find no record of where he was born...his marriage said he was of  "this parish", but there are no births registered in Waddesdon before those of his own children.  There are Hillsdon's in several areas of Bucks...and I have traced all the parish records of any Thomas Hillsdon (and spelling variant) in and around 1691 (going as far back as 1684 etc), but there are none.

There is of course the possibilty that he came from another county (there are Hillsdon's in neighbouring counties as well). 

So the question is, how do I go on from here...or have I hit the proverbial brick wall?

[redfrog]

Hi Daisy Loo

Know how you feel as I'm at a similar 'brick wall' myself with a marriage in 1766 and the groom being 'of this parish' but can't find the baptism.  Have you checked to see if there's a gap in the registers for the period in question?  There is a gap in my case which might just overlap with the possible baptism year.  I don't know why the gap occurs though.  If for some reason there was no vicar in the parish, perhaps the child was taken to the father's or mother's parish to be baptised. I don't know if that was a common occurrence - just guessing really. 

I would definitely check the neighbouring counties. It's not a particularly common name (is it?), so perhaps you might strike lucky there.

Have you checked the BT's?  Perhaps there might be more info there than in the register as I understand that can sometimes happen.

Good Luck
Chris

[AngelaR]

Chris's idea about checking if there is a gap in the parish records is a good one. In the parish of a large number of my ancestors, there is a 4 year gap because the vicar was banned from functioning normally while his case (for marrying 2 sisters) was heard in the Bishop's court. My ancestors appear to have been baptised in the next nearest parish where presumably the vicar stood in for the dodgy one.

However, when you get back that far, there's often gaps in the registers because the mice have eaten it or the writing is illegible or water has got in....

Have you investigated other parish chest-type records such as removal orders?

Angela

[Daisy Loo]

Thank you both for your answers...

Just 2 quick questions.... what are BT's (Chris)
and what are "removal orders"?

I'm pretty certain this isn't about a "gap" in a register...as the period I have looked at (1660-1760), the earliest birth recorded was 1720...which would mean no births for a Hillsdon in at least 80 years?  Does that make sense?

Still, I'll look back on what I've got... and I'll have a feel in other counties   cheers

Daisy Loo

[AngelaR]

Hi Daisy Loo

What I was thinking about was that your Thomas might possibly have been born in Hillsdon but just fallen into a small gap. I take your point that they must have moved in from somewhere else originally.

Could I just ask whether you've seen actual register copies or whether you've used an index or transcript? Also, was it the baptism register or the Bishops Transcripts (BTs!) - because sometimes one survives better than the other.

Removal orders go with settlement examinations - I don't know if your family was well off but if not, when a family moves parish that parish sometimes carries out an examination to see whether the family is likely to become a financial liability on the parish. If they look like they are, they can be 'removed' to their parish of origin. I think I've got that right but if not, someone will correct me. 

Where these things exist, they're invaluable. It might be worth having a look on the Access to Archives bit of the National Archive website to see what parish records exist for Waddesdon other than the registers, because some of them might give clues......

Good luck 

Angela

[AngelaR]

PS Did you have an ancestor James Hillsden in Waddesdon around 1813? If so, he appeared as a witness against the parish in the Easter quarter sessions because the parish wasn't maintaining the roads properly   

[Daisy Loo]

Thanks Angela....you're being very helpful

I visited the Centre for Buckinghamshire Studies, and did a search there, then looked up the parish records on microfiche for Waddesdon...I also have transcripts for all baptisms, marriages & burials from 1660 - 1860 for Buckinghamshire for the name HILLSDON and all variations.

I have them for generations in WADDESDON until my GGG-grandfather left to London...he resettled in High Wycombe etc etc.

How would I go about looking up removal orders?  I am back in Ireland now..

[AngelaR]

Hi Daisy Loo

Looking at the Centre for Buckinghamshire Studies website and also the National Archives, I would say that the former must have an awful lot of holdings that have not been catalogued - or at least not catalogued on-line. They do say that they won't do detailed research, but will answer basic questions so it might be worth emailing them to ask if there are any/many settlement examinations or removal orders relating to Waddesdon. If there are, it might be worth posting a query on the Bucks board asking if someone is visiting the centre and whether they could have a quick look through for your Hillsdons around 1700.

The only other thing that comes to mind is - When you were looking at the registers, did you make a note of the burials of any Hillsdons before Thomas? I was just thinking that if he relocated to Hillsdon as a child with his family, then the deaths of any Hillsdons in the first half of the 1700s might give you some other names to search for in the hope that you might find a group of baptisms that matched somewhere else.

It's not easy when you have to do this remotely - unfortunately none of my ancestors lived in the same area as I do and it doesn't half make things difficult 

[Comosus]

BTs are Bishop's Transcripts. The Bishops copied the information from the parish registers, but they could have survived better and can give more information.