Author Topic: Robertson/Ewart Brick Wall  (Read 20780 times)

Offline Ann Baker

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Re: Robertson/Ewart Brick Wall
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 11 November 09 00:13 GMT (UK) »
Hi Rae

I can;t find that William on 1841 either - wonder if he'd gone wandering BUT the poor relief record says between May 1841 and 1842 they lived in Broomlands St then West St and then Newton St. These roads are all pretty well next to each other and it was weaving central for the west end of Paisley.

I think can explain the missing baptisms. I know that they were non conformists and therefore their records wouldn;t be on Scotlands People because not church of Scotland. But those records are meant to be coming to SPs at some point soon. However it all really depends on how good they were at keeping them.

I can tell you they were married by Walter Blair who was the Minister in the Gaelic Chruch - and I know they were also connected to Martyrs Memorial church (I was christened there as it happens cos we lived round the corner and was the local one). See link attached for more info re the churches. Walter Blair married quite a few of them! There must be some Highland connection but not found it yet. I reckon they must have come down as part of Highland Clearances in late1760s but until I can find the John who married Eliz Youart/Ewart's parents difficult one to prove.

http://www.renfrewshire.gov.uk/ilwwcm/publishing.nsf/Content/els-jh-HistoricBuildingsPaisleyChurches#Wednesday

As you'll see the Martyrs Mem has no graveyard and nor does the old Gaelic now either cos they moved them all in the late 60s - was big hue and cry about it all. It was all moved to Hawkhead cem which is huge!

Fraid Elizabeth's parents not on poor relief record but it does say she was born in Muirkirk - that's Ayrshire but I can't find anything for her on SPs. I think there had to have been more children cos a big gap between Agnes 1830 and Hellen 1835.

There is a possible on SP for an Elizabeth in Peebles which isn't that far from Ayrshire where the mum was Agnes and the birth was 1811. I'm a member of the North Ayshire FHS (Muirkirk in their patch) so will ask them to see what they might be able to dig up. But chances are Agnes 1830 was first born and usually the first girl would be named after mum's mum. If this is the right one her dad was a Robert. So if we follow naming convention you'd expect a William and a Robert in there somewhere - could well be but died as babies and being non conform no records online! grr!


Now v important question have you got FH software that can handle a gedcom? Then I can send you my tree and would love one in return.

West Brae is intersting because it;s same end of the town as the other streets above - in fact not that far from Broomlands st. Best way to describe it is Broomlands St heading east into the town, becomes Wellmeadow then the high St. West Brae is just off to the left of Wellmeadow and at the top of West Brae is - the very church they married in! So I wonder is this them and he was off wandering as was his want?

I should be going home in a week or 2 so will get you some pics of how it is now.. Hopefully the tenements are all still there. Pretty confident re parts of Broomlands St and Queen St but not so sure re West St. I know some are still there but some been pulled down. This is spooky I went to school around there too when I was a wee lassie.

I'll also give my mum's cuz a ring - she;s a Robertson (82!) and see if she knows any more. She's given me a lot on the gt grandparents but not sure what she has before that. I do have a photo of my Gt grandad William and his wife Christina Fraser but alas nothing before that.

All very intriguing!

Ann :D
Torrens, Thompson - Tyrone & Fermanagh,Connolly, Campbell - Monaghan & Cavan, McGovern, Carroll, Orr - Ireland <br />Connolly, Fulton, Stirling, Cameron, McKellar, Robertson, McGovern, Torrance, Bisland, Fraser, Hamilton, O'Hara, McAusland, McTaggart , Lambie, Twedale, Hart, Clark(Paisley/Barrhead/Glasgow)<br />McGovern, Liddell - Falkirk<br />Mair, Muir, Carroll, Stewart, Law, Orr - Lanarkshire <br />Torrance - Brisbane<br />Connolly , Robertson- NSW<br />McGovan(?), Robertson , Agnew-

Offline Rae33

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Re: Robertson/Ewart Brick Wall
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 11 November 09 01:57 GMT (UK) »
Ann, thanks so much for all the info and the link to the churches site.  Great to have the pictures and info on where our ancestors were baptised and married.

Haven't got Gedcom as yet so will have to work on it.  I have PAF5 from the LDS site so will have to read up on it. I don't learn new tricks easily.

William and Elizabeth (Grozet) are on the 1841 at 1 West Brae but their ages are given as 25 should be older.  No Agnes, but Hellen 7 Janet 4 and Alexander 2. I have the copy from FreeCen and also SP.

I have the OPR birth for Elizabeth Grozart daughter of Robert Grozart, Weaver, in Peebles and of Agnes Wallace his wife was born on the 23rd Jan and baptized on the 24th Feb 1811 by the Rev Dr John Lee, Min of Peebles.

Interesting to know Eliz G has given Muirkirk, Ayr, as her place of birth, as if she and William split up maybe she went back to Ayr or Peebles.  Did they have divorce in those days?  I know she died before 2 Sep 1870 from Alexander's marriage certificate and William was still living.

Re-reading my last message I sound quite heartless saying what good news but of course I was so happy to think there was the connection to the Castle Street family. The poor records make such sad reading and the 1840's were a particularly hard time.

I found a marriage for a Rebecca Robertson (19) to Alexander Crawford on 17 July 1862 in Glasgow but her parents are shown as William Robertson Harness Weaver on the marriage cert and mother Elizabeth Robertson MS Fraser (deceased).   Her death cert 27 May 1914 (70) shows parents as William Robertson Weaver dec and Elizabeth Robertson MS Fraser deceased again - thought they may have confused the surname but I guess not.

Bye for now....Rae

Offline Rae33

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Re: Robertson/Ewart Brick Wall
« Reply #20 on: Friday 13 November 09 04:31 GMT (UK) »
Hi Ann - Have been finding some interesting things re Wm and Eliz Grozet's daughters.  On SP 1851 census I have found Helen aged 17 and Rebecca aged 8 at Paisley High Ch Renfrew GROS data 573/00 027/00 024 - and can you believe NO IMAGE available!! It must be very close to 33 Castle St as that  data no is 573/00 028/00 008.  Do you know if NO IMAGE for census means the quality was too poor to print or should I ask for help in finding them in a new post on Rootschat?

I found two sisters of the right ages married in Hutchesontown Lanark - Rebecca as mentioned in last post and Helen's second marriage both in 1862 and they match up almost perfectly (William is named as Hand Loom Weaver and Weaver on the other certs) EXCEPT they give their mother's maiden name as Frazer or Fraser.  WOT IF they though her name was Frazer? Grozet was sometimes spelt as Grozer and derives from the French so maybe that's how it was pronounced.

Helen was married three times and I obtained her second marriage cert first as they named their children for each other. If you look on the IGI you'll see what I mean.  Helen's second husband was Peter Barr Steel and Rebecca named her son Peter Barr Steel Crawford, and Helen's daughter is Rebecca Barr Robertson Crawford Steel (researcher's delight!)  I picked up on the Barr for Helen Barr but Peter Steel's mother was Christina Barr.

ANYWAY I have just got Helen's first marriage cert to Mathew McDougall on 2 Oct 1855 and it gives Helen's birth - Born and registered on 26th August 1835 at Paisley - so it is looking to me that these might be our girls.  I have only to convince myself about the maiden name.  I have their death certificates and they all show Frazer and yet I can't find a marriage for a Wm Robertson and Elizabeth Fraser.  There were four children born to a couple with these names in Banff and they are Mary born 25 Apr 1830, Alexander Mackay forn 27 Sep 1833, Elizabeth born 10 Sep 1835, and Hugh Nairne born 27 Dec 1837 which don't fit in between our children' dates.
I can email you copies of the certs.  Janet is a bit harder to trace, there are a few more of them.

Cheers....Rae

Offline Ann Baker

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Re: Robertson/Ewart Brick Wall
« Reply #21 on: Sunday 15 November 09 05:29 GMT (UK) »
Hi Rae

Crikey you've been a v busy bee.
Quote
Have been finding some interesting things re Wm and Eliz Grozet's daughters.  On SP 1851 census I have found Helen aged 17 and Rebecca aged 8 at Paisley High Ch Renfrew GROS data 573/00 027/00 024 - and can you believe NO IMAGE available!! It must be very close to 33 Castle St as that  data no is 573/00 028/00 008.  Do you know if NO IMAGE for census means the quality was too poor to print or should I ask for help in finding them in a new post on Rootschat?


There IS a problem with 1851 for that bit of Paisley. Images not that good. SPs will tho attempt a transcript if you ask them.

No divorce really then - too expensive !

I'm not going to be able to do anything for a day or three as I have an exam on Tuesday but after that will have a good look! The Fraser thing tho is v intersting especially given my gt gt grandmother who married the Robertson was a Fraser! And said Frasers were from Highland parts - not found them in Banff tho - Invernesshire I think but then there are literally squillions of Frasers in Highlands!

They don;t make it easy!

Speak soon after the dreaded deed is done Tuesday

Ann :D

Torrens, Thompson - Tyrone & Fermanagh,Connolly, Campbell - Monaghan & Cavan, McGovern, Carroll, Orr - Ireland <br />Connolly, Fulton, Stirling, Cameron, McKellar, Robertson, McGovern, Torrance, Bisland, Fraser, Hamilton, O'Hara, McAusland, McTaggart , Lambie, Twedale, Hart, Clark(Paisley/Barrhead/Glasgow)<br />McGovern, Liddell - Falkirk<br />Mair, Muir, Carroll, Stewart, Law, Orr - Lanarkshire <br />Torrance - Brisbane<br />Connolly , Robertson- NSW<br />McGovan(?), Robertson , Agnew-


Offline Rae33

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Re: Robertson/Ewart Brick Wall
« Reply #22 on: Sunday 15 November 09 09:42 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for your reply Ann.  Wishing you the very best for your exams.

Cheers....Rae

Offline Rae33

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Re: Robertson/Ewart Brick Wall
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 24 November 09 00:17 GMT (UK) »
Hi Ann

Hope your exams went well.

The good news is MonicaLesl has checked out the 1851 for me and advises that Eliz Grozet's daughters Helen and Rebecca were living at 116 George Street Paisley High Church with their grandmother Agness Groset (52) White seam sewer born Ireland.  My bad news is that it's not likely that they would have thought their mother's maiden name would be Fraser if they had lived with their Grandma Groset, so I will have to look elsewhere for their marriages and deaths.
I looked for Agness Groset in 1841 and found one Agness Grosart aged 45 female servant born outside Census county living at Inverkip-Renfrewshire address West Bay.  Also working with her is a Barbara Robertson 19 Female servant born outside census county.  William's sister Barbara was not on the 1841 census with her family at Spierston.  By the way, can you tell me where Spierston is, is it a street?
So it looks to me as though Elizabeth Grozet may have died before 1851.  She must have been very young when she married.  Could you check her Poor records for me to see if she gave her age?
Regards....Rae

Offline Ann Baker

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Re: Robertson/Ewart Brick Wall
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 25 November 09 02:30 GMT (UK) »
Hi Rae

Exam was not so bad but you never know if that's good or bad! New Year will tell lol!

Spierston now loonger there - not a street was common ground probably best description but was i right area being west end of town.

I sem to reme,mber finding a barbara who I thought wasn;t mine so I need to have a look see and see if she could have been elizabeth G's. I think our wee Wullie led a very complicated life by looks of things e.g. on 1851 why is EW with her parents and not him - he;s with his paents and there is a Barbara on there? But cos of scottish naming convention she could be a robertson or she might be someone else i.e. Rebeccas is on there as Rebecca Robertson but by then she was Rebecca Crawford (If is any comfort my dad still calls me by maiden name so if I was there on census night he;d say I was Ann Connolly lol)

Sadly no age on poor records for EG.

Now exam free til January will have some more time for rummage tho not in next few days as have to go home this weekend - dad not too well but I will try and get you pics round west end - Castle st etc. Not far from where they live so am sure can nip out for a wee snap or 5.

But meanwhile this is me outside the martyrs mem - I was christened there and I know they attended that church just a few years before

Ann :D


Torrens, Thompson - Tyrone & Fermanagh,Connolly, Campbell - Monaghan & Cavan, McGovern, Carroll, Orr - Ireland <br />Connolly, Fulton, Stirling, Cameron, McKellar, Robertson, McGovern, Torrance, Bisland, Fraser, Hamilton, O'Hara, McAusland, McTaggart , Lambie, Twedale, Hart, Clark(Paisley/Barrhead/Glasgow)<br />McGovern, Liddell - Falkirk<br />Mair, Muir, Carroll, Stewart, Law, Orr - Lanarkshire <br />Torrance - Brisbane<br />Connolly , Robertson- NSW<br />McGovan(?), Robertson , Agnew-

Offline Ann Baker

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Re: Robertson/Ewart Brick Wall
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 25 November 09 02:30 GMT (UK) »
I'm the lone soul with the blue coat on lol!
Torrens, Thompson - Tyrone & Fermanagh,Connolly, Campbell - Monaghan & Cavan, McGovern, Carroll, Orr - Ireland <br />Connolly, Fulton, Stirling, Cameron, McKellar, Robertson, McGovern, Torrance, Bisland, Fraser, Hamilton, O'Hara, McAusland, McTaggart , Lambie, Twedale, Hart, Clark(Paisley/Barrhead/Glasgow)<br />McGovern, Liddell - Falkirk<br />Mair, Muir, Carroll, Stewart, Law, Orr - Lanarkshire <br />Torrance - Brisbane<br />Connolly , Robertson- NSW<br />McGovan(?), Robertson , Agnew-

Offline Ann Baker

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Re: Robertson/Ewart Brick Wall
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 25 November 09 02:40 GMT (UK) »
Those houses you can see in backgrounhd are King St. Our lot lived on toher side of road you can see in fronnt of church.

I lived here when I was a wee lass. The house with brown window frames - one up on left  - new windows since we were there! But where our guys lived were similar buildings.

Ann :D
Torrens, Thompson - Tyrone & Fermanagh,Connolly, Campbell - Monaghan & Cavan, McGovern, Carroll, Orr - Ireland <br />Connolly, Fulton, Stirling, Cameron, McKellar, Robertson, McGovern, Torrance, Bisland, Fraser, Hamilton, O'Hara, McAusland, McTaggart , Lambie, Twedale, Hart, Clark(Paisley/Barrhead/Glasgow)<br />McGovern, Liddell - Falkirk<br />Mair, Muir, Carroll, Stewart, Law, Orr - Lanarkshire <br />Torrance - Brisbane<br />Connolly , Robertson- NSW<br />McGovan(?), Robertson , Agnew-