LEAHY

[Janet Jarvey]

Hi Joe

John Leahy's wife was Elizabeth Ashe, born in 1789.  She died at her son Henry's residence, Flesk Cottage, Killarney, on 22 March 1864.  Hope this helps.

Janet

[jgl1959]

Janet,

   Thanks for that information.   One follow-up; there are extensive baptism records (LDS films) for Killarney for the same time period as the years in which John Leahy ESQ and Elizabeth Ashe's children were born, but I cannot find a single record for the birth of any of their children.  Any idea why that might be the case? I found book references to Elizabeth Ashe being the wife of John Leahy ESQ, too, but I wondered if there was any possibility of those books being incorrect.  One thing that I have found is that sometimes there a critical error is made, sometimes in older books, and this error is then repeated over and over again.

    There is wedding record for  John Leahy and Elizabeth Thompson for 1805 in Killarney, and some of their children included a John, Thomas, and David, and David was their 5th child.  I considered whether this could actually be John Leahy Esq.  I know it could be coincidental, but it doesn't make sense to me that there are no records for the marriage of John Leahy and Elizabeth Ashe, or any of their children, especially for someone of such high standing.

     Do you have any thoughts?

     Thanks,

     Joe

[Janet Jarvey]

Dear Joe

I heartily agree with you that early mistakes are all too readily repeated, complicated of course when dealing with common names. You've raised a big question mark over Elizabeth's identity, and it looks as if no small amount of research is necessary to solve it.  For the purposes of my research however, I have focussed on the main line; I can't offer any comment on baptism records because I have not consulted them.  Nor can I offer indepth information on all the Leahy children because such research was not necessary for my purposes. 

What I can say however, if it helps you, is that I have gathered dates from the family vault, complemented by primary research.  I can assure you that John Leahy Esq of South Hill and Elizabeth are interred along with a number of their sons in Killarney. If the stone mason and the press had it wrong, Joe, then perhaps we should abandon research altogether! 

I have no idea what direction your research is taking, so there is not much more I can add to help you.

All the best
Janet

[jgl1959]

Janet,

     For the marriage of John Leahy and Elizabeth Thompson,  I have an actual date of 2/12/1805.

     Here is what I have for actual (LDS) baptismal records for John Leahy and Elizabeth Thompson from Killarney Parish:

Catherine Leahy  27/10/1805

Daniel Leahy  7/3/1807 (listed as born in "Glynns", could be Glen or Glen Flesk?)

Michael Leahy 17/9/1810 (listed as born in "Allanes")

John Leahy 18/5/1813

David and Thomas Leahy 28/11/1815

Elizabeth Leahy 7/12/1822


Compare this with what is in the book by Burke for John Leahy and Elizabeth Ashe:

marriage 1809
John born 1810
Richard born 1811
Edward born 1812
Henry born 1820
David born 1826
Thomas born 1828
Arthur born 1830
Charles John born 1833

Maybe I am just completely wrong, because the LDS John Leahy family does not match up well with the John Leahy family in the book by Burke.  The children listed in both cases are John, David, and Thomas, but in some cases the years are way off.

As far as why I am interested, I have some evidence that Daniel Leahy from the LDS records (b. 1807) was my ggg-grandfather.  I'm not trying to "link up" with John Leahy, Esq because he has a title - this is simply where my research has taken me.

In any event, I certainly appreciate your taking the time to reply to me.  And yes, I do trust the stone masons and the press!    Best regards,  Joe

[Janet Jarvey]

Hi Joe

I must keep this brief as I'm running late, but take it from me Burke's cannot be taken as gospel, I've found a number of erroneus dates in this work.  There was no Daniel among the South Hill Leahys, I'm afraid.   

There is a rather infamous case among my notes of the murder of 68-years old Daniel Leahy at the hands of moonlighters at Scarteen, in Killarney in 1882.  He had lived in Killarney town before moving to Scarteen. This was a different family to South Hill, a prosperous farming family.  The atrocity was highlighted in a government enquiry and widely reported in the press.  How hard is your evidence that the Daniel Leahy born in 1807 is the one you seek?

All the best,

Janet

[jgl1959]

Janet,

        I'm fine with my Daniel not being with the South Hill Leahy's, but if Burke's is incorrect, then what evidence is there that Daniel is not from that family?  What if John Leahy Esq had children that Burke does not list?  That's really what I'm looking for - evidence that Daniel is or evidence that he isn't in this family.

        I do not as yet have hard evidence that my Daniel is the one born to John Leahy and Elizabeth Thompson in 1807.  I do have my Daniel's marriage record from 1836, and he is listed as being from "West Glins" (Glen or Glen Flesk?).  Moreover, the Tithe Applotments for Killarney of 1834 have Daniel Leahy and John Leahy II (and David, Richard, and Thomas Leahy) owning land in nearby townlands around Gortugullane and Coolclogher.   But it does not add up to hard evidence.   

       So there are really two issues here for me - is my Daniel Leahy the son of John Leahy and Elizabeth Thompson, and born in 1807, and secondly, was John Leahy Esq married to Elizabeth Ashe or Elizabeth Thompson, and is the list of their children in Burke incomplete?

       I am currently working with a genealogist in Ireland, one request per month, beginning with the 1830's and going backwards,  so by Christmas maybe I will have some solid information!  Best,  Joe

[Janet Jarvey]

Joe

I suggest you stick with the facts you have and follow them to avoid getting lost in the woods, so to speak.  If you're certain the marriage cert you have is that of your ancestor, then follow that course.  If Daniel was from South Hill, it would have been stated on his marriage certificate.  He was from West Glins; that is the course I would follow.  As far as 'Glins' is concerned, you might be interested in reading a delightful essay on such a place written by Bill Quirke.  You can find it in chapter 6 (The People of the Glens) of the book Killarney National Park, A Place to Treasure, published by Collins Press in 2001.  It's so beautifully written it'll make you cry.

I see you have a genealogist working for you, so I'm not in a position to offer more guidance. But I will keep an eye for you, in the course of my work.

Janet

[Quaxer]

Dear Janet

Some thoughts upon Shane's and your Messages.

Shaw's Directory for 1850 confirms that David was an attorney and was either a partnerto Sir Richard Orpen(or an associate) at No. 41 North Great George's Street (called Kenmare House  with fine wall frescoes) There is no reference to him that I can find in the Irish Times  newspaper at this address. I note that Sir Richard Orpen had premises at Ardtully,Kenmare and this might show how they linked up

The law comentary to which you refer was written by a barrister yet David was a solicitor!!Without sight or other knowledge  of the work I guess that it relates to the treason felony trials of 1848 and suggest that you contact the Librarian of Kings Inns Dublin or failing that the faculties of UCD or TCD who might have further information as to the author.

Regards

Quaxer

[Janet Jarvey]

Dear Quaxer

Thanks for your thoughts.  You’ll have to forgive my ignorance of matters legal.  Could a barrister in 1845 change profession to attorney by 1850?  It seems unlikely ‘my’ David Leahy is the author of this publication as checks in the Colloquial Who’s Who and Anonyma and Pseudonyma reckon David’s birth as circa 1800, a date that doesn’t fit with this Leahy.

The Sir Richard Orpen connection is interesting.  Thanks for your time!

Janet