Millar of Kirkcudbright Caerlaverock Terregles and Troqueer

[rlheco]

I am (along with others) researching the Millar (Miller) clan who emigrated from the Kirkcudbright/Dumfries area and settled mostly in Southern Ontario. Proliferating and spreading from there.

The Millars are connected to Burgess for example Bryce Burgess Millar who was born to Agnes McMichael Burgess "in uncleanness"  according to the PR. The Bastard son of William Millar b c 1808 himself thought to be the son of John Millar and Janet Stoba. Info is sketchy on this family as I do not believe that Janet Stoba and John Millar ever married.

There is a baptism record for our direct line for Williams (alleged) brother John b 1794 and baptised as "illeg" son of John Millar and Janet Stoba of Caerlaverock (near Dumfries). John became the Blacksmith in Terregles, raised a family who for the most part made their way to Canada. There son James (1822-1881) stayed behind in Terregles to take over the Blacksmith business with his wife Margaret Jane/Jean McLeod (1822-1901)

John Millar b 1794 children with Margaret Francis (1793-1887 Huntsville, Ontario, Canada):
James (c1822) and Robert (c 1824) stayed in Scotland, however John (1825) , Catherine (abt 1823) (married Gabriel Copeland), William (b 1832) and David (1838) all came to Canada. Their mother came too and it is not known what became of the father John b aprox 1794.

Trying to shore up this blood relation to Burgess and hopefully find more info on William so as to know for sure that he is related to the other Millars in our direct family tree. (check this related Thread for Burgess in Canada and elsewhere http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,356098.0.html)

Likewise looking for info on the Stoba's as relates to Janet (b cir 1760) and her close friend/lover John Millar (b cir 1775)

Any shipping manifests showing the family emigrating to North America in the 1850-1870's.

Also any other input that might prove useful in connecting the Kirkcudbright/Dumfries Millars

Thanks

[Gadget]

I do hope someone can help, rheco 

Just to add  for those who might read  this that we do have details of Agnes McMichael Burgess and her ancestors.


Gadget

[Gadget]

Hi again

I seem to recall from distant cousin in Toronto (descended from Agnes's sister, Jane, I think) that the Burgess/Millar group were in Minnigaff at one stage.

Do you have the families on the 1841/1851 censuses?

I have Bryce with his grandmother, Euphemia,  in Kells on the 1841.


Gadget

PS  and are you sure that William Millar was Bryce Burgess Millar's father?  I can't recall the cert saying that but I've not seen it for a while.

[Gadget]

The entry for John Millar bpt 1794, Caerlaverock,  reads:

Sept 28th 1794 JohnMillar illeg son to John Millar day labourer of Tongland and Janet Stoba Caerlaverock

I'll check up on William Millar bc.c1808 to see if I can find anything.

Nothing so far on Janet Stoba 


Gadget

[Gadget]

Re William MIll*r:

I have

25 Oct 1807 s/o James Millar and Rosina Harkness, Langholm, DFS

and

30 Sept 1806 s/o William Millar and Susan Thomson, New Abbey, KKd

Your William might well have not made the baptismal records for some reason or other.

Where did you get the info that John andWilliam were brothers and that John Millar and Janet Stoba might be William's parents?



Gadget

[Gadget]

Could this be Janet Stoba:

14 Sept 1760, Caerlaverock - Janet Stobie d/o Thomas Stobie and Janet Bell

I used soundex on SP.


Gadget

[Gadget]

11 Stoba and 3 Stobie  bpts in  Caerlaverock 1710 - 1830

One good sign is that the Stobie births are all to Thomas Stobie and Janet Bell and at least one of the Stoba births are to Thomas Stoba and Janet Bell so  I think that there might well have  been a change in spelling or mistranscription along the way.

It looks a strong possible that Thomas Stobie/Stoba and Janet Bell were the parents of Janet Stoba/Stobie.


also 15 Stoba in Caerlaverock in 1841.


Gadget

 

[rlheco]

Could this be Janet Stoba:

14 Sept 1760, Caerlaverock - Janet Stobie d/o Thomas Stobie and Janet Bell

I used soundex on SP.

That was my guess as I think I saw that baptism at Scotland People PR's or in the IGI. But without a marriage to John Millar and the mention of parents it is difficult to say for certain. What might help is if there was a Kirk Session over the "uncleanness" that surrounded John 1794 birth. But I am unaware of the location of those records if any exist. But your logic is sound. The name Stobie might as well be the same as Stoba with the variants in Surname spelling. The Stoba's were Prussian in origin from what I have read and may have had some class that prevented a formal marriage.

William is the father listed on the PR for Bryce Burgess Millar. The other question about the relationship of William to John is by way of family oral traditions. I believe that the "brother" relation is quite tentative but the two families (Millar and Burgess) were quite bound together in Canada.

This connection was related to me by another family researcher in Toronto, possibly the one that you are referring to.....PM and we can compare notes.

rlheco

[Gadget]

Unless the couple were married by a Church of Scotland minister, a marriage would not be entered into the parish records. Other forms of marriage were quite legal under Scots law, including common law. Also, not all parish records have survived - there is a whole section of Parton records that are missing which probably contain the marriage of my 2 xgrt grandparents.  Further, John and Janet might never have married. They were in different parishes, after all.

The Kirk Session minutes will be at the National Archives in Edinburgh. I believe that SP do have a plan to put them online at some stage but the indexing of them has caused a delay (type of indes, etc.). There are online indexes available for Dumfries and another  couple of of Dumfriesshire parishes but that is all from this area.

What other information do you have available for William (b.c. 1808)? How do you know that this William is the William mentioned as Bryce's father? You don't mention whether you have followed the family to the 1841 cesus or if he remained in Scotland. Euphemia and her family moved toCanada in late 1840s - early 1850s.


Gadget