Author Topic: Todmorden - Horsfall - some questions  (Read 12451 times)

Offline yelkcub

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Todmorden - Horsfall - some questions
« on: Saturday 08 August 09 16:54 BST (UK) »
My ancestor Abraham Horsfall (1733-1807), married to Martha Thomas (1755), mentioned eight children in his will. A while ago someone was kind enough to look up the family in Wilson’s Baptisms at the Chapels of Heptonstall and Cross Stone … Only three of Abraham and Martha’s children seem to listed: John (1755), Richard (1758) and Philip (1774). The missing names are Susan, James, Abraham, Sarah, Betty. In Abraham’s will his children are named in that order (with John and Richard coming first, and Philip last of all), which suggests that it was their birth order. Does anyone know whether it is possible that the missing children might have been baptised elsewhere, or might it be the case that some entries in the original, from which Wilson made his transcription, are illegible?
Philip was born in Pickovergate (various spellings) – where both Abraham and Sarah died, so the family probably inhabited the same place for a long period. Does anyone have any information about Pickovergate? Was it a farm, or a group of cottages, or an area – and does the name still exist in present-day Todmorden?
Another place, associated with the next generation of Horsfalls, was Lowersmithy (or Lower Smith, or Smithy). Wilson adds an H, suggesting that it was in Heptonstall. Any ideas?
I would be grateful for some local knowledge!
Ian

Offline danuslave

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Re: Todmorden - Horsfall - some questions
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 08 August 09 17:23 BST (UK) »
Hi Ian

Just using Google, I found something on the National Archives site that says Pick Over Gate was near Stansfield (1851 census)

Linda

Added - There's also a house for sale at 1 Pickover Gate, Butts Lane plus a map see www.mouseprice.com/property-information/ref-17863006

Added - looking at the original images for Stansfield in 1851, there were 4 households in Pick Over Gate, none of them Horsfall
MOXHAM/MOXAM - Wiltshire & Surrey
SKEATS - Surrey
BRETT - Kent & County Durham
and
SWINBANK - anywhere

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline dobfarm

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Re: Todmorden - Horsfall - some questions
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 08 August 09 17:43 BST (UK) »
Hi Ian,

I'll be in Wakefield WYAS on Monday. I'll see what comes up!
In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth

Offline dobfarm

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Re: Todmorden - Horsfall - some questions
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 08 August 09 19:07 BST (UK) »
Hi Ian

Just using Google, I found something on the National Archives site that says Pick Over Gate was near Stansfield (1851 census)

Linda

Added - There's also a house for sale at 1 Pickover Gate, Butts Lane plus a map see www.mouseprice.com/property-information/ref-17863006

Hi

Just to add to Danuslaves Address Its full address  Pickover Gate, Butts Lane, Horsfall, Millwood, Todmorden, West Yorkshire ( above Horsfall railway tunnel)
*******************************************
Lower Smithy, Golden, Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire HX7-7HP
In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth


Offline yelkcub

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Re: Todmorden - Horsfall - some questions
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 08 August 09 20:37 BST (UK) »
Thanks for these very prompt and informative replies - they are really helping me to understand the geography of what seems like a complicated area. Since there were so many Horsfalls living in Stansfield, Langfield etc areas in the 18th and 19th centuries their address (as sometimes recorded in Wilson's register transcriptions) is proving important in tracing which were my Horsfalls.
By 1851 my own direct Horsfall ancestors had moved to farms in Lancashire (Little Marsden and Whitworth), though I'm sure they had left oodles of relatives back in Todmorden.
Thanks again - your expertise is much appreciated
Ian in Cornwall

Offline danuslave

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Re: Todmorden - Horsfall - some questions
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 08 August 09 21:11 BST (UK) »
Glad to help  :D
MOXHAM/MOXAM - Wiltshire & Surrey
SKEATS - Surrey
BRETT - Kent & County Durham
and
SWINBANK - anywhere

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline dobfarm

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Re: Todmorden - Horsfall - some questions
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 09 August 09 09:51 BST (UK) »
Hi, Ian,
http://www.old-maps.co.uk/indexmappage2.aspx

There are lots of little farms, lanes and what seems pocket names areas at nearly every field corner/ lane bend around  the Todmorden area on the 19th c (1800's) maps. So your are on the right track! Lancashire  pre 1850 and after
Sawley abbey near Preston was Yorkshire till 1974

as below. Richmond  in Yorkshire capital  North Lancashire

Litchfield in Staffordshire was Capital of parts of Huddersfield (Holmfirth) in Yorkshire but a bits of Derbyshire as well.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/Carole_Clyde/newpage31.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diocese_of_Chester

http://www.thornber.net/famhist/htmlfiles/topograp.html

http://www.thornber.net/england/htmlfiles/sawley.html

Sawley Abbey, Lancashire, England
Until 1974 the site was in Yorkshire but after the local government reorganisation it became part of Lancashire. Sources: Sawley Abbey, A Celebration of 850 ...
www.thornber.net/england/htmlfiles/sawley.html - Cached - Similar

Sawleyabbey is near Preston
Drives one nuts!!!!
In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth

Offline danuslave

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Re: Todmorden - Horsfall - some questions
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 09 August 09 10:09 BST (UK) »
Hi dobfarm

Nice post - glad you're into this sort of thing.  It certainly makes my head spin   :D

Linda
MOXHAM/MOXAM - Wiltshire & Surrey
SKEATS - Surrey
BRETT - Kent & County Durham
and
SWINBANK - anywhere

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline dobfarm

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Re: Todmorden - Horsfall - some questions
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 09 August 09 10:46 BST (UK) »
Hi Linda.

Best is I not really! (Ancestry) It was my neice in New Zeland who enrolled me as her Dad told her  NOT INTERESTED! As I'm retired  and live near local Libs. Reccy offices etc! Info searcher! as for trees my self- I cant get my head around them or my own! Yet I seem to be Full of info!!Archive knowledge  that people on Roots wants!
Just got scratched -dragged through an edge backwards to get a grave photo for someone on Roots in Halifax who live in the south- Why She did my tree!

As said my Neice drove me Nuts!  find info! I'm now in  Limbo land!! I've NO Interest in Ancestry-----Never had

Dobby
In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth