Author Topic: Names and the sudden urges to confuse others!  (Read 8747 times)

Offline buttercup

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Names and the sudden urges to confuse others!
« on: Thursday 06 August 09 08:21 BST (UK) »
Hi all,

i've got a few burning name questions to ask - and i think the more i think about them i get more confused, frustrated and the sense that i must be missing somethign so obvious!

Anyway!

MARTHA - i know its a name in its own right, I've heard and seen it used as Matty for short - that's understandable.

Can a MARTHA also be known as MARY?? On another post of mine (see Lancashire board) i've gotten a census return in which the person whom i know ot be Martha is listed as Mary... are these two very different people or did she have a sudden urge to change her name come census night!  ::) Can Martha be known as anything else?

CISSIE - after a bit of google i'm led to believe this is a short form of Cecilia? Cissie can also be used as apet name for sisters??
Can any other name be known as Cissie?? A Cissie listed with the said Mary above seems to disappear - no death that i cna see, no marriage or simply no presence! And i have tried variations of Cecilia unless i've missed it somewhere!

AGNES - am wondering, and it may sound silly, but can it be known as Ann?

Confused...
Would love to hear peoples responses!
Jen  :)
HURST, RUDD, BANKS, APPLETON, BRYAN, RIGBY, ORMSHAW, PICKERING - Lancashire
BRYAN, PICKERING - Cheshire
BROWN, TURK - East Sussex

Offline chris_49

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Re: Names and the sudden urges to confuse others!
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 06 August 09 08:47 BST (UK) »
No idea on Martha as Mary, but I had an aunt Elizabeth who was known as Cissie - an established short form it seems.

Agnes can indeed be Ann. According to Bill Bryson's book on Shakespeare - Ann Hathaway was known as Agnes, the G was silent in those days and the two names were regarded as interchangeable. Chris
Skelcey (Skelsey Skelcy Skeley Shelsey Kelcy Skelcher) - Warks, Yorks, Lancs <br />Hancox - Warks<br />Green - Warks<br />Draper - Warks<br />Lynes - Warks<br />Hudson - Warks<br />Morris - Denbs Mont Salop <br />Davies - Cheshire, North Wales<br />Fellowes - Cheshire, Denbighshire<br />Owens - Cheshire/North Wales<br />Hicks - Cornwall<br />Lloyd and Jones (Mont)<br />Rhys/Rees (Mont)

Offline Isabel H

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Re: Names and the sudden urges to confuse others!
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 06 August 09 12:18 BST (UK) »
According to "First Name Variants" by Alan Bardsley and "The Oxford Book of English Christian names"  Martha and Mary are separate names, but Agnes and Ann can be variants.
Cissie, however can be anything at all. In my own family Cissie turned out to be Joan, and "Cis" was Ann.  I've seen a thread somewhere, which I now can't find, where someone asked about this name and got a huge number of different answers! I suspect that sometimes it was just short for "Sister".
GRAY - Inveresk; Lanarkshire
LINDSAY - Lanarkshire
PURDIE - Lanarkshire; W. Lothian
POZZI - Elgin; Lancashire
MACKENZIE, MORISON - Stornoway
ARCHIBALD, HAY, HUNTER, SNADDON - Clackmannanshire
COXON, HALL, JACKSON, SHOTTON - Northumberland

Offline Ruskie

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Re: Names and the sudden urges to confuse others!
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 06 August 09 12:40 BST (UK) »
I know that in Scotland names are interchangable in ways that they are not elsewhere. This is a good site for some examples:
http://www.whatsinaname.net/
I thought I vaguely remember Martha/Mary being interchangable somewhere but I must have been dreaming because I can't find any mention of it.


Offline Meriel

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Re: Names and the sudden urges to confuse others!
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 06 August 09 12:50 BST (UK) »
I also have a Rosina who was known as 'Cissie'  ::)
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Offline Brie

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Re: Names and the sudden urges to confuse others!
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 06 August 09 13:57 BST (UK) »
Hi,

Do you have Martha/Mary's birth? I had a Charles on the census who became Samuel on the next one. Turns out he was born Charles Samuel.

Brie

Offline mshrmh

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Re: Names and the sudden urges to confuse others!
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 06 August 09 14:30 BST (UK) »
Apart from Cissie as a pet name or for Cecilia there is also Cicely and Cecily.

Offline carol8353

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Re: Names and the sudden urges to confuse others!
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 06 August 09 14:59 BST (UK) »
In Scotland Agnes can also be known as Nan,Ann or Nancy.

I have a great aunt Ciss (Cissie) her real name was Cecilia.

Carol
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Offline danuslave

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Re: Names and the sudden urges to confuse others!
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 06 August 09 16:20 BST (UK) »
Hi Jen

When people filled in their census returns 100 or more years ago, they had no idea that we were going to be using them for research.  In fact they were probably told that the contents would never be made public!

In many cases they could have been illiterate, or semi-literate, and like a lot of people nowadays, not bothered about whether the information they gave was accurate or not.  They would put down whatever the person was known as, regardless of what they had been registered at birth or baptised - and these aren't always the same.

In addition, a lot of returns would have been filled in by men and (sexist as this is) how many RootsChatters know men who would be pushed to tell you whether their wives have a middle name, never mind what it is   :D

My Dad had 1 sister, 1 wife and 2 daughters and in the heat of the moment would often run through all our names before hitting on the right one (and his sister lived 50 miles away).

I tend to use all the information given on each certificate or census and weigh up the probability of it being the same person.  Of course you risk following up a wrong lead occasionally, but very few of us can be absolutely sure that all the research we have done is 100% accurate.

There has recently been another thread on how much 'proof' you need (or can expect).

Go with what you find, and when searching for new stuff use all the variations you are aware of.  Oh and don't make assumptions.  I had always assumed that Frank was short for Francis, but there are many Franks in BMD and census records.

And finally - I once knew someone who was always known as Biddy.  Her given name was Jessie   :D :D

Linda
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SKEATS - Surrey
BRETT - Kent & County Durham
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SWINBANK - anywhere

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk