oh my gosh thank you all so much, you have managed to do in a few minutes something i,ve been looking for for ages!! dare i ask if you can find if he divorced alice? as he went on to have two more children, my mother and her sister with another lady called kate rolfe? i can find no marriage records, and story goes that alice was in some sort of home with a mental illness of some kind.
thankyou all again you have been so helpful!!