Margaret Williams, Middlesbrough

[alllegs]

Hey,

All details are apparently correct for Margaret's marriage cert.  Hmmmmmmmm not sure what to do now.

I also emailed the Hartlepool office again to ask about the mother of the Hartelpool born MW, to see if that would link in with the Cornish William Williams, but his wife, Elizabeth, is not that Margaret's mother.

Do you think its worth just buying that birth certificate and at least that would give me another name to work with??

AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH why is this women so elusive??  I have a feeling she doesn't want to be found.....

Thanks
Love
Legs
xxxx

[coffers]

It would be tempting for me to buy that birth certificate as it fits.

The thing that worries me is that there is no sign of this Margaret Williams as far as I can see in the 1901 census. Where was she at that time? Could there have been a name change, could she have died before the census and we've got the wrong one?

In fact it looks as if the one in Hartlepool did die at a very early age, FreeBMD gives the following death reference:

Deaths Sep 1897
Williams  Margaret (aged 0)  Hartlepool  10a 77

So it looks as if you have to open up the search.

There was a Margaret Williams born in Sunderland in the same qtr of 1897 as the Hartlepool one, she appears in the 1901 census. That birth might be worth checking out. The details are:

Births Jun 1897
Williams  Margaret     Sunderland  10a 588

If this Margaret does not have a father named William then you really do have to open up the search to every Margaret Williams born between say 1895 and 1897, and there are a lot of them about.

Possibly your best bet is to search the 1901 census for intances of Margaret Williams with an age of 5 + or - 1 year and work your way through them. There are 225 listed on the Governments Official 1901 census site, 94 of whom were aged 5. This will be a costly exercise unless you subscribe to Ancestry.co.uk which doesn't actually hold a complete list yet.

I think this is going to be one line that you may have to put aside for the time being, until you are in a position of of being able to afford a subscription to a Census website and, the time to make a sustained effort of slogging through a long list of Margaret Williams1901 census hits, looking for one with a father named William in the household.

You say she is ellusive, but really the problem is she has a 'commonish' name and that you are missing a vital piece of information or two. I have the same problem with one of my Great Grandfathers called William Gibson. In the end I've researched other lines and offshoots until I can either stumble over some extra clues or get more time to make a long sustained slog at finding which one of many he might actually be.

[alllegs]

Thank you,

In think you are right Coffers, I think its about time to put Margaret Williams on a back burner for now until I'm rich enough to trawl through the 1901 of join ancestry!!

I did waste about £50 (don't tell the bank man) on the 1901 going through some of the 5 year old MW's,  I've found 10 with father's called William so far, but still have 35 to look at.  Is it worth telling you which ones have fathers called William??  Let me know if your interested??!!  The majority are obviously in Wales, I can't find any which I've not already eliminated who had moved to the Middlesbrough area before 1901 and I haven't checked any from the Liverpool area, of which there are about 6, a couple from London, 1 from Essex, 1 from Erth in Cornwall - could that link to the cornish family I found previously??

Of the 10 found so far with fathers called William Williams none had siblings or other obvious connections with the names I mentioned from my bracelet.

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Thank you all for all your help, if you have any brain waves, let me know........!

Thanks again   
love
Legs
xxxxx

[coffers]

I've had another look at the Cornish connection and it could be a possibility.

Given that one of the sons in the 1881 census was born in Normanby which isn't very far from either Eston or North Ormesby. As you say there is William WIlliams in the 1901 census at St Erth who could fit with the 9 year old William in the 1881 census for :

 William Williams  29 St Erth Cornwall Cornwall St Erth Rural Engine Fitter

It looks as if he could have moved back to his roots from the Middlesbrough area. Do you know who he was living with at the time of the 1901 census?

The thing about Margaret being disowned could indicate that she actually moved away from where she originally lived, to get out of the way of her parents, to avoid further embarrassment. We seem to have a cornish man linked with Middlesbrough who went back to live in Cornwall at some point. Perhaps Margaret made the journey in reverse.

Given the 1901 census entry:

Margaret Williams  5 Cornwall Hayle Cornwall St Erth

Seems to link with William Williams of St Erth.

But the following entry for the 1881 census could discount the above:

Name, Year born, Birthplace, Relationship, Parish.
William J. Williams abt 1879  Landewednack, Cornwall, England Son  St Erth

I think this is definitely a back burner job, there are too many possibilities at the moment to pin anything down to one one many possible persons. I don't think passing me any info on the other William Williams will help as you ned more clues as to where Margaret originated from. I don't suppose anyone living can remember whether she had an accent?

[alllegs]

Hi Coffers,

Thank you for all your help, I emailed the Sunderland office to ask about the father of the MW they have registered and it isn't William, another one down millions to go!!!

I'm afraid that the only person still alive who knew MW is my gran, and she doesn't remember anything about her as she was only 4 months old when MW died/disapeared.

I've just had a thought though, I don't have my gran or her brother's birth certificates, would they give any clues as to where MW came from??  I have all the details needed to order them but haven't bothered as I know from my gran about them.  Or if I rang the registry office which holds them would they have any parish records etc that might give us a clue?  I'd probably have to pay for them to do a search on my behalf............maybe thats worth a try.......?

Oh well, I guess I'll return my focus to the other drama's occuring elsewhere in my tree!!

This is more entertaining than anything on TV etc at present!!

Thank you all again

Legs
xxxx

[coffers]

Your Gran's birth certificate will not state where your mother came from, but it will state your Gran's mothers name and her birth name. It might also state any other name that she had prior to marriage though I doubt it, That would be more readily accessable on Margaret's marriage certificate. It will also state where they were living at the time.

Register offices don't normally hold copies of parish registers. Parish Registers are either held at the particular church parish or at County Records Offices. Margaret was married at North Ormesby Parish church wasn't she? That might be worth investigating if you can find where those parish records and registers are now held. I'm not sure where that would be as I've not needed any registers for the Middlesbrough area yet. A call to the Middlesbrough Reference library may offer some help or insight into where you might find such records.

The first step might be to find out if the church she was married in is still open and, if so, a letter to the incumbant vicar may provide some help, don't forget to supply an SAE. I'm not sure if they charge for look up services though.

Regards,
Mike.

[sillgen]

The Cleveland Archives Office in Middlesbrough are very helpful.  They are more likely to know where the parish registers are than the Library.   They may well have them on film.
Andrea

[coffers]

That's useful to know Andrea, I'll remember that for a time I might need such services. 

[Jan1B]

Thank you so much AMW,
The telephone number for the Eston Cemetary Office is 01642 444991 ,if you ring them and ask for a grave no ,they will also let you if there is a headstone or not ,if there is I will visit and take a photo for you ,

Jan