Thorpe Family, Elkesley

[linnet27]

I wonder if someone can help to solve the mystery of my great grandparents family. 

John Thorpe b 1881 Blyth, Notts and Maria Elizabeth Jackson b 1860 Scawby, Lincs.  Their children are
John William, 1882, Blyth
Lily 1885, Blyth
Annie Elizabeth, 1887, Blyth
Mary, 1889, Blyth
Charlotte, 1890, Bury. Hunts
Charles, 1891, Bury
Flora, 1894, Bury
Ernest, 1898, Bury
George, 1899, Bury
Nellie, 1900, Bury
Mabel, 1902, ?
Ella, 1906, ?

I've found John & Elizabeth in 1911 at Elkesley with Ernest, George, Nellie and Mable but no sign of Ella.  The only Ella Thorpe I can find is with Samuel Billyard in Walesby and it says granddaughter, age 5.  However, I have no record of Billyards in the family so how can she be his granddaughter?

I realise I can't ask you to look at the 1911, but does anyone have any thoughts please?

[CaroleW]

Are you sure Ella belongs to the same Thorpe family?  Do you have her birth cert?

There are only 2 Ella Thorpe births on freebmd 1906 St Albans Herts and 1907 Southwell Notts

Walesby is in Notts

If you check freebmd you will find that Lucy Billyard married William Thorpe in 1906 in Notts

[Jane Eden]

Hi

Do you know John and Marias parents and grandparents? Also were John or Maria married previously? Is there an illegitimate child (Ella)? Are any of the following familiar Harrison, Darwin, Fletcher, Searcy as a Samuel Bill(y?ld) married all of these around 1870s?

Billyeald or alternative spellings could be maternal grandparents mothers names, previous marriages, adopted children etc. I have a grandmother whose mother died shortly after having her. She was adopted by her elder brothers in laws. It can get really intricate or a red herring!

I can only look up details for Notts and not other counties.

Regards

Jane

[linnet27]

Hi Jane and Carole.  Thanks for your thoughts.  I do have parent and grandparent information and I don't think either of them were married previously.

Flora was my grandmother, but she died in 1927 when Mum was only 5, so we don't know a great deal about the family and I was trying to put some flesh on the bones rather than keep tracking backwards. 

Thanks for the info about the Billyard/Thorpe marriage.  John Thorpe had a brother William born 1855.  I have no information on him, perhaps he had a son William, so that could definitely be a link.  Perhaps I should invest in the certificate for that one.  I think I should also send for the birth certificate for the Walesby Ella, to confirm her parents.

There is another twist to this.  In 1911 there is another Thorpe listing for Elkesley -
THORPE, WILLIAM     HEAD             SINGLE     56     BLYTH NOTTS           
THORPE, CHARLES    SON                    SINGLE    19    BURY HUNTS       
THORPE, ANNIE    DAUGHTER    MARRIED    24    BLYTH NOTTS       
THORPE, FLORA    DAUGHTER    SINGLE    16    BURY HUNTS

These appear to be 3 more of the children of John & Maria but why are they listed as son and daughters here.  Also Annie is married but still called Thorpe. 

What a family!!

Lynne

[ansteynomad]

Lucy Billyard was my great aunt.  She was the daughter of Samuel Billyard and Annie (Fletcher) of Walesby.  She married John William Thorpe in East Retford in 1906 and they duly produced Ella.  Lucy died in Walesby RD on 10 March 1907 at the age of 26, of acute nephritis, caused by tuberculosis.  Ella was only a very young baby at the time.

I haven't followed Ella through, but she certainly kept up contact with her mother's family.  Her cousin Irene (Dawson) remembered her very well when she was corresponding with me in the 1980s.

I can see this is quite an old thread, but I hope it helps.

Sheila

[linnet27]

I am revisiting this family after some considerable time and have only just seen Sheila's reply.  This is very interesting and I think I may have a possible answer and would appreciate any thoughts.

The eldest son of John & Maria is John William born May 1882.  I know from his granddaughter that he married in Sep 1908 but could he be the same JW that was married to Lucy Billyard? Is it possible that Ella was taken in by Lucy's parents after her death in 1907 and JW went on to marry again and have a new family, (10 I believe).

Maria was born in 1860 so it is unlikely that she had more children after the birth of Mabel in 1902, so this does make some sort of sense (at least to me!!)

Lynne

[larkspur]

John Thorpe had a brother William born 1855.  I have no information on him, perhaps he had a son William, so that could definitely be a link. 

Baptism Blythe
6-7-1861 John son of Thomas & Elizabeth Thorpe father a labourer
6-3-1859 Henry   ditto
8-5-1864 Sarah Ann
27-1-1867 Mary
13-6-1869 Elizabeth
12-11-1854 William
14-9-1856 Charles Freeman.

The William on the 1911 census is in Blyth on the 1881, with his parents Thomas and Elizabeth, he seems not to have married, being single on the 1891 (with brother Henry in Rawmarsh) and the 1901, back in Blyth with his widowed mother.
Annie is called Swift on the 1911. There is a marriage for an Isaac Swift and Annie Thorpe at Worksop Jun Q 1911 7b/104.
There is a birth registered for Flora Thorpe, Mar 1895 St Ives 3b/293. She is with her parents John and Marion on the 1901 in Bury Hunts, Charles is also with them along with 7 other children, quite why they are with their Uncle William on the 1911 

[linnet27]

Confusing, isn't it!!

Thanks for the baptism information.  I didn't have all of those.

Lynne

[ansteynomad]

I've just checked the 1911 census where Ella, incorrectly indexed as Ella Sharpe, is in Walesby Notts with her grandad Samuel Billyard, and his daughter Annie.  Irene, who I referred to in my earlier post, was Annie's daughter.

Does that help at all?