White Hart, St Mary's Butts

[newburychap]

The 1920 directory (Kelly's) is a bit confused over the White Hart - in its list of Berkshire publicans it shows Payne as the landlord, in the Reading street listing it has Percy Thomas Crisp. Crisp is there for many years after, so I would read this as showing that Payne left the pub around 1919/20.

[CFP39]

Hi

The link was great and I've been trying to work out when the building was modernised. 
The 1920 aerial shot shows the later building so assumed that he was in that building.

However if there is doubt that he was landlord in 1920, maybe not!

Have been wanting to pin him down after 1918.  He joined Royal Berkshire Reg at 18 years and served 21 years (up to Feb. 1914).  He was recalled for WW1, but haven't got details of that, believe he served the full term.  Know he had a variety of occupations, and on his death in 1935 he was an estate agent.
Seem to remember being told he was with the Territorials before the start of the "Great'" war.

Would records of licensees be at the Library or The Berkshire Records Office?

Thank you both for your help.   

Regards
Lee

[newburychap]

The records of licensees are at the Berkshire Record Office.

[CFP39]

Thanks for the info      Will have to make the effort to visit BRO.

Would like to correct a mistake.     For reason unknown I got it into my head that the family were living at no. 5 St Mary's Butts in 1911.  They were in fact at no.12!

In the photos I've been looking at no. 12 is sometimes down as Territorial Army and other times as Salvation Army Citadel!  Is this correct?

Thanks for your help.

Regards
Lee

[newburychap]

Kelly's Directory of Berkshire 1920 (Reading street index section - St Mary's Butts):

[CFP39]

Thanks again.

I've had a look in the Kelly's directory for 1915 and found James Payne named as at White Hart!   

Thought he would have been away with the army.  If his wife was running the business while he was away would his name still have been entered in the directory?

Not sure what the situation was in war years if licensee was 'called up'.   

Your help greatly appreciated
Lee

[newburychap]

I've had a look in the Kelly's directory for 1915 and found James Payne named as at White Hart!   

Confirms what I read from the confusion in 1920 - he left around the time the directory was being compiled (so one section had him and another had his replacement).

Not sure what the situation was in war years if licensee was 'called up'.   

I am not sure what happened in Reading, but in Newbury they seemed to have ignored the licensees absence for a while (turning a blind eye to the legal requirement for a licensee to actively supervise his house).  Eventually it dawned on them that the war was not going to be over by Christmas and the licenses were transfered to the wives or some temporary landlord (at least one pub in Newbury had a retired landlord return for a while).

[silvapagan]

This is very interesting. My gran on my mother's side of the family (Lay, Jones, North) use to tell me that there were houses and a pub in the middle of the road at St Mary's Butts in Reading. I'm trying to remember if she said that she had family who lived there, or if she just knew someone who did, but on my father's side of the family, Payne is one of our surnames.

[CFP39]

Hi Silva

There could be a family connection as my grandfather had an elder brother and three sisters (as well as a younger brother who was killed in WW1). Don't know what happened to brother William but all his sisters married (1 x White & 2 x Pratt).  My father was vague about his cousins but I know that there were several girls a lot younger than him.  No connections to Lay, Jones or North that I know of!

Grandfather & great grandfather were both born in Rickmansworth.  They moved to Speen some time between 1875 - 1881.

Hope this is enough to see if there is a connection.  Have my Payne family back several generations now, but more recent events are more difficult to confirm.

Good luck
Cicely