tielle and haining families

[Lucy2]

 I have another query this one regarding Theresa Martha Hall who left New Zealand aged 4 years old. We have not been able to find any information on her and was wondering whether she could have been adopted and if there is any connection between the name Martha Trielby Haining (daughter of Mattie and James Haining) and Theresa Martha Hall. Theresa Martha Hall married Francis Robert Fitzgerald ...
 

Hi again

Well, based on the supposition that Mattie (Martha) went to live in Australia c. 1907 and took her young daughter Martha Trielby HAINING with her, I've come up with the following (having though, only limited access to Australian records.)

WWII records for the FITZGERALD sons of Teresa (Theresa) HALL, show that they enlisted in WA.   (Mother's name given as both Teresa DONNISON and Teresa FITZGERALD.    Also a WW11 record for William John DONNISON  (of WA) - n.o.k. Teresa DONNISON ).

The death is noted on the WA cemeteries website for Teresa Martha DONNISON - d. 17 May 1981 - aged 78 (bc 1903).

AND ... also on the WA cemeteries site, at Karrakatta RC Cemetery - a "Martha HALL - died 26 September 1945 - aged 79 years"  ... born c. 1866.   

Are we on the "same page"  ?          

Do you think that this Martha HALL (d. 1945) is the mother of Teresa HALL ??

[Teresa Martha HALL + Martha Trielby HAINING - both born 1903  ?

Martha HAINING (nee TIELLE) born 1866  +  Martha HALL also born 1866. ]     

*   Do you have death certs for either Teresa DONNISON or Martha HAINING  ... (or Martha HALL) ??

Lu

[gemini]

Hi Lu
Thank you very much for all the info, I had all of Martha/Mattie's children to James Haining but I didn't have the death details.
Hmmm ... I'm finding this a little puzzling, 'cos you haven't said whether (mother) Martha HAINING left New Zealand and went to Australia ?         
I don't know whether Martha Haining did go to Australia but I presume she must have if her husband James Haining went if he did go to Australia or did he stay behind in NZ. I must try and find the 1907 shipping records for them as Theresa was 4 years old when she left New Zealand but I am puzzle why the name change if there was a name change, as my sister (this is her husband's side of the tree) said that Theresa Hall had a sister call Margaret Hall/Haining.

I have no death cert for Theresa Donnison just this bit of info

First Names Last Name Application Number
TERESA MARTHA  DONNISON  KC00067036 
Names are only recorded in capitals   See legend for application code details
Aged (Years) Date of Death Suburb
78    17/05/1981    MANDURAH 

wwii records is correct with both sons joining up in wa as well as Theresa/Teresa's second husband William Donnison also joining up.

AND ... also on the WA cemeteries site, at Karrakatta RC Cemetery - a "Martha HALL - died 26 September 1945 - aged 79 years"  ... born c. 1866.   
Martha Tielle who married James Haining was born in 1866 but if that is her why the name change? did she marry again? Martha Trielby Haining and Teresa/Theresa Martha Hall were both born in 1903 in NZ
Where did James die in Australia or NZ
There is a death registration for a James HAINING 1941 (place unknown) - aged 91 years - born circa 1850  ... but I can't confirm this is the right James ?
I have not been able to find a marriage for Teresa/Theresa Hall but she married Francis Robert Fitzgerald then William John Donnison. I have not found a Marriage for Martha Trielby Haining in any place.
Two of James and Martha's sons also came out to australia as well since you found their deaths in Australia
Like you i am wondering if half the family came to nz and martha married again and half the family stayed behind with James?
regards maggie

[Lucy2]

Hi Maggie

Intriguing huh ?

Can you tell me please, what details you already have for this Teresa HALL ?

*    How is it that you know she left NZ for Australia when she was 4 years old ?   (Where does that info come from ?)

*    Are the TIELLE and HAINING families already connected in some way to your sister's husbands family ?   

*    Or is it only Teresa HALL who is connected ?

Any extra info you can give here, will make the job to solving this mystery, a little bit easier.

Lu

[gemini]

hi lu
Teresa Hall is my brother in law's grandmother on his father's side. He was told she left aged 4.
Martha Trielby Haining or maybe Teresa Martha Hall married Francis Robert Fitzgerald.
Son Fitzgerald
Father Francis Robert Fitzgerald marry Evelyn Rooks
Grandfather Francis Robert Fitzgerald marries Theresa/Teresa Martha Hall or Martha Trielby Haining. (if they might be the same person) she later married William John Donnison.
Great Grandfather James Haining (father of Martha Trielby Haining) married Martha Tielle
Great Great Grandfather Pierre Tielle (father of Martha Tielle) married Margaret Nicholson.
it's a bit confusing but on Francis Robert Fitzgerald marriage certificate to Evelyn Rooks his parents were listed as Francis Robert Fitzgerald and Teresa Hall.
but according to brother in law his grandmother was nickname trilby
and according to your earlier records two of the haining boys came to australia. Teresa Hall  has a sister Rena Margaret Hall who suppose to have married Robert Haining one of the boys you found in the death section.
Did Martha nee haining marry again and hence teresa hall

[Lucy2]

Hi Maggie

Great.    That's making a little more sense to me now.   

Obviously, we always have to treat "family stories" with a little caution ... at least till we can back them up with "facts".

The info you've given about Teresa HALL having the nickname "Trilby" certainly seems to indicate that she was perhaps the former "Martha Trielby HAINING".   (You have the "fact"  that Teresa also came from NZ;   a matching birth year with "Martha Trielby" and "Martha" retained as Teresa's middle name;  plus this "Trilby" nickname ... which I would say, is quite an unusual name.)  So yes, all the "evidence" you have so far, looks very positive.

*    Regarding the sister of Teresa HALL ... Rena Margaret HALL  ... was she younger than Teresa  ??

(I ask, because as you know, Martha Trielby HAINING seems to have had a much older sister named Margaret Annie HAINING (b. 1886).  )

Lu

[Lucy2]

Did Martha nee haining marry again and hence teresa hall

What I think could have happened, is that Martha HAINING (nee TIELLE), has taken off to Australia with (at least) her youngest child ("Martha Trielby").    Martha HAINING has either re-married (nor not), a Mr HALL, and her young daughter has taken on the "stepfather's" surname.   (Why she has come to be known a "Teresa", is a bit of a mystery though ?)

Incidentally, I can't see a divorce for James and Martha HAINING in NZ.

Lu
 

[gemini]

hi lu
i just can't explain it all a big mystery trying to find out. According to the brother in law teresa's sister was rena margaret hall who married a robert haining. I haven't been able to find a marriage for them. And those two boys you found in nsw death are martha and james haining two sons. I will ask tomorrow who was the eldest  i am not sure if rena is still alive. You have been a great help and thank you.
regards maggie

[Lucy2]

Hi Maggie

Was just having a look around the WA BDM website and found what I think could have been an earlier marriage for Rena      (Surely there was only one Rena Margaret HALL ? )   

Apparently due to copyright, I'm not allowed to post the marriage reference here  ... but if you go to following site, you can find it.

http://www.bdm.dotag.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/default.aspx

Lu

[Lucy2]

According to the brother in law teresa's sister was rena margaret hall who married a robert haining. I haven't been able to find a marriage for them. 

Hi Maggie

There's this reference too, which may be the lady whose marriage record is on the WA site ?

http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/GenResearch.html

[Click on "Search all MCB records"]

Rena Margaret BUTLER (Known as "Margaret")

Suburb :   Bayswater

Died :  24 December 2005 - aged 95 years  (born c. 1910).

Karrakatta Cemetery - cremation record


Lu