Barrow in Furness - 1911 - Thomas William Holmes

[kwiffboy]

Hi there,

I am looking for my grandfather's biological family. He was adopted by the Davenports in Tarporley, Cheshire, sometime in 1911/1912 (I think).

His full name as I have it is Thomas William Holmes Davenport. As there is no mention of any "Holmes" in the previous eight generations of Davenports I can only assume it is linked in some way to his biological parents - whether as a name, or as a reference to their locality.

His RAF papers say he was born on the 17th October, 1911 and I understand that he came from the Barrow in Furness area.

I have looked on the 1911 census but there is no record of him in either place (I think he was born too late). I am also fairly certain that it was not a formalized, official adoption so there is no paper trail to follow.

My father told me nothing of this fact before he died six years ago - I only know because a "lady friend" of his happened to mention it a couple of months ago. I would just like to have some inkling of his (and my) back ground.

If any one fancies shooting in the dark I'd be very grateful for any suggestions or information you may be able to give me.

Regards,

Matt Davenport.

[CaroleW]

Hi

There is this birth reg but I would have associated the background with illegitimacy

Thomas W Holmes December qtr 1911 Mother's Maiden Name: Carr  Barrow in Furness Volume: 8e  Page: 1324

[CaroleW]

Again - this is only a possibility

There is a marriage in September qtr 1908 on freebmd - Hannah Carr - but there is an uneven number of male/female names

The ref is Barrow in Furness 8E 1803

The GRO index shows a marriage in the same qtr for an Arthur Ashburner Holmes Barrow in Furness 8E 1808

The 1911 index has Arthur Ashburnet (mis - transcription) Holmes aged 29 living in Barrow

There is only one Hannah Holmes in Barrow - Hannah Mary aged 31

I have no way of knowing if they are man and wife as the 1911 is pay per view

Without more info about the Davenports it would be difficult to say whether there is any family connection

There is no death for Hannah or Arthur Holmes 

 

[Geoff-E]

The only HOLMES living with Arthur Ashburner HOLMES in 1911 was Ethel Jane aged 25 ... Ethel Jane POSTLETHWAITE 8e 1608.

Hannah Mary had husband Tom (34) and five kids (including a Thomas Wilson HOLMES, 7).

[kwiffboy]

Hi Carole & Geoff,

Firstly, many thanks for your help and my apologies for the delay in replying.

To confirm what you have said so far:

Carole, you think there may be an Thomas W Holmes that is relevent. but the fact that there are parents names suggest he was not illegitimate, and so is less likely to have been put up for adoption?

Geoff, you're suggesting that Hannah was married to another man, Tom, and that they had a son, Thomas Wilson Holmes, who was aged 7 in 1911?

Could this mean that there are two Thomas Holmes' - Wilson and W.? The birth of Thomas W. in the December quarter of 1911 would tie in with the RAF papers.

Just speculating, but on checking, it seems the 1911 census was taken on Sunday the second of April. Is it therefore possible that Arthur Ashbourner Holmes and Ethel Jane are the parents, but that Thomas is yet to be born? Obviously, this wouldn't explain why he was given up for adoption by a married couple.

For reference, I have found absolutely no evidence to suggest there is any link between the Davenports and Barrow in Furness. I suspect that it was most likely arranged through the church. 

Many thanks for your help and for giving up your time.

Kindest regards,

Matt davenport.

[Geoff-E]

To confirm what you have said so far:

Carole, you think there may is an Thomas W Holmes that is may be relevent. but the fact that there are parents names suggest he was not illegitimate, and so is less likely to have been put up for adoption? 

Geoff, you're suggesting that Hannah was married to another man, Tom, and that they had a son, Thomas Wilson Holmes, who was aged 7 in 1911?  I am saying the Hannah Mary HOLMES in Barrow in 1911 had a husband called Tom and five children.  As they already had a child called Thomas, I doubt they would have had another one later in 1911.

Could this mean that there are two Thomas Holmes' - Wilson and W.? The birth of Thomas W. in the December quarter of 1911 would tie in with the RAF papers.  Yes, at least two of them.  In fact, there was also a Thomas HOLMES aged 2 in Barrow in 1911.

Just speculating, but on checking, it seems the 1911 census was taken on Sunday the second of April. Is it therefore possible that Arthur Ashbourner Holmes and Ethel Jane are the parents, but that Thomas is yet to be born? Obviously, this wouldn't explain why he was given up for adoption by a married couple.Ethel Jane was a POSTLETHWAITE, born within wedlock, never a CARR, so not the mother of the 1911 TWH.

For reference, I have found absolutely no evidence to suggest there is any link between the Davenports and Barrow in Furness. I suspect that it was most likely arranged through the church. 

[CaroleW]

Hi

The background of adoption you describe is one usually associated with an illegitimate or orphaned child

The 1911 birth reference shows a mothers maiden name of Carr.  If he had been illegitimate, I would have expected mothers maiden name to be Holmes

We then have the query about which Carr was his mother.   However - the 1911 shows Arthur's wife as Ethel Jane

You need to buy a copy of his birth cert
 
Thomas W Holmes December qtr 1911 Mother's Maiden Name: Carr  Barrow in Furness Volume: 8e  Page: 1324

[rosie99]

Hi

Just another spanner to throw in the works 

There is a birth Barrow in Furness December qtr 1911

Thomas W Derry  mothers maiden name Holmes

8c 1340

Rosie

[rosie99]

Hi

Just another spanner to throw in the works 

There is a birth Barrow in Furness December qtr 1911

Thomas W Derry  mothers maiden name Holmes

8c 1340

Rosie

Ignore that one he died the same quarter