Reid, Perthshire to Derbyshire, 1800's onwards

[kazzann]

Hi Monica, Thankyou so much once again. I went to the Scotalnds People website, joined, and downloaded the two death certificates. They were definately my James's parents as it stated on Roberts certificate that his son was James Reid, of Heybridge Stafforshire. ( I am certain that was my James!!!). (No mention of Robert being a bailliff though!!, only a shepherd!!and farmer)
Now I need to look into this John you mentioned as bailliff, & see if he was in fact Robert and Helens son.. Isn't it interesting that James stated his father was a bailliff and called his first son John Robert!!! Maybe he was embarressed that his dad was only a shepherd, or/ maybe john was his father (unwed), and his grandparents brought him up!!!???
more research to do by the looks of things.
thanks again, regards Karen

[MonicaL]

Hi Karen

That is a fantastic and well deserved result for you  Was James the informant to his father's death, is that why his details were included?

I would have thought from the records you have that James was Robert and Helen's son, rather than g/parents. You have the OPR birth and christening entries and the Scottish censuses match his birth year of 1834. If he only had one brother, John, may explain why he used the names John Robert for his first son after his father and brother. If Robert and Helen did have more children between John and James, they certainly don't look to have been living by the time of the 1841 census where only the two boys show, matching the OPR births that you have.

Really pleased for you 

Monica

[kazzann]

Hi Monica, yes , James was the informant, I reckon that was a strike of good luck for me and my research!!! I agree with you regarding John as the only  sibling, . It's a mystery why there was such a long gap, maybe Helen kept having misscarraiges or something,
regards Karen

[KirstyG]

Hi Karen

There is a "Gateside" just west of Perth, near Tibbermore. This would probably have been counted as Forgandenny. It appears to be a farm on the Old Gallows Road. It still exists on modern OS maps.

There is a picture here: http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/730234

Kirsty

[kazzann]

Hi Kirsty, Thankyou for that. When you say "counted as  Forgandenny", what exactly do you mean? Sorry for sounding a bit vague, but I am wondering whether you mean that this "Gateside" is actually in the parish of Forgandenny. Thankyou so much, this is very exciting if this is the actual farm where my Reids lived and died!!! I will look into it Thanks again!!! regards Karen

[KirstyG]

Hi Karen

What I meant was that might be the nearest large settlement, although in retrospect that might be Tibbermore. I'm not sure which parish it is in as the map I was looking at does not show parish boundaries. Many parishes in Perthshire had their boundaries altered in the 1890s and some changed to become parts of other counties. It gets a bit confusing at times. The place I found might  not have been the residence of your family, it was simply the only nearby place I found with a similar name.

I would normally sugggest looking at the NLS maps section, but they seem to be doing maintenance and the site is down.

Genuki has a lot of information about the parishes.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/PER/boundaries.html

Another very useful site for history of places and maps:
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/gazetteer/

There is another site which shows some parishes though it's a bit minimal.
http://www.geo.ed.ac.uk/scotgaz/parishes/parmap570.html

From here:http://www.historystreets.com/image.php?id=208634 it would appear that Gateside has been around since at least the 1750s.

Kirsty

 

[Ratchete]

Hiya

Just a thought: could your farm labourer have worked his way up to being a farm baillie ie a grieve (the worker in charge of the rest of the workers aka foreman)?  It's not beyond the realms of possibility that baillie could have been corrupted into bailiff, especially in a Scots/English translation.

Yours

R

Husband is a Scottish farmer and although dieing out these terms are still just about in use.

[Ratchete]

Hi again,

Found this on http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/th/read/DUMFRIES-GALLOWAY/2001-03/0985907197

"On Scottish farms the farm steward (a manager put in by an absentee farmer) was often known as the Farm Baillie. Judy notes that in England they're known as Farm Bailiffs, which makes me think that at one time the words Bailiff and Baillie were one and the same"

Which is more or less what I said before except the grieve might report to the baillie, or in reallity they could be the same person.

R

[kazzann]

That is brilliant!! I think you may have cracked my Bailliff mystery, thankyou soooo much, I'll look deeper!! I have discovered that this Robert Reid from Forgandenny is absolutely and definately my Ancestor I have been searching for!! Death cert. confirmed it!! Thanks again Rachet