WWi PRisoner Numbers

[pilates]

Looking for anyone's prison number from IOM WW1 so I at least
no how many numbers or if there are letters or what it starts
with. Still looking for Jossef Hubertus Pilatus.
thanks.
going to IOPM in Sept!@!!!!
Siri

[Voirrey M]

Siri     I    thought   we   established  in   your  last  string  that  there  were  23,000  internees  in
Knockaloe   camp  in  WW1&  few  individual records left unless  someone  died  there.  Manx  National
Heritage  Library  has  an  amazingly  good  collection  of  photos  of  all  aspects  of  camp life  &
had  a  major  display  a  couple  of  years  back.  Although  the  inmates  were  indeed  imprisoned against  their  will  the  word  prison is  never  used.  Several  inexpensive  books  are  available  in  its  shop  or  locally.  A   selection  of  records  is  apparently  available  at  the  National  Archives,
in  Kew , London  but  most  records  were  destroyed  presumably  on  Uk  gov.  orders . These  were
after  all  British  Camps  , in  a  convenient  offshore  island.  There  are  those  who  suspect mountains of  paper were tipped down  disused mineshafts.  As   there  is  no  complete list  left  here
it  is  impossible to  prove Pilates  was  here.  However  if  he  said he  was here you will be  able  to
build up  a   very  clear  idea of  his  life. You  may be  able to  see  him in  a  Gymn photo---no  names
kitted out smartly  as in  civilian  life.KNOCKALOE farm outside  Peel is  easily  accessible  &  the campsite fields are  still there.You  may  be  able to access the  site as it is the Dept of  Agriculture
Headquarters &  sometimes open to the public.   Voirrey


   

[Siridharmagalliano]

Thank you for your lengthy reply. I do know all that.
However, after researching in England, there are records of when and where
people were arrested(by the way the camps were first called 'concentration
camps'

I have proof from International Red Cross that he was there.
I have many, if not all the books, and a trip planned to IOM in September,
that is way exciting, as is this chatpage.

I am just looking for anyone's number to know what it begins with,or how
many numbers in one, or are there letters. It is like Cold Case(a show here
in the USA).

I dont think I would recognize a picture of him.
I am impressed by how well everyone was dressed.
I do have James Baily, the Quaker who taught the prisoners how to build
furniture, book. He got all his photos from the Manx Heritage museum.

My story is some committed suicide, many got barbed wire disease,
and some became enlightened. Pilates developed his method of
physical and mental conditioning there, he says he worked out a thousand
men and worked in the hospital.

thank you for you reply.
siri

[Voirrey M]

Siri    I   do  have  somwhere  a  list  of  all  the  deaths  in  the   Knockaloe  Camp   [  having  read  all  the  death  certs]

I  think  there  were  almost  200  over  the  years &  surprisingly  internees  &  staff  deaths  are   AT  Knockaloe  because

even  the  soldiers'  hospital  was  within  the  campus. It  is  interesting to  note  all  internees  deaths  were  followed by

a  post mortem  by a  civilian  doctor  to  avoid  any   cover  up  of  mishaps.  Just   as  many  soldiers  died , they   were

often  elderly  &   surprisingly  were  just  as  prone  to  depression  &  suicide  as the  others. Again  it  is  the  same  for

manslaughter/murder---just  a few  cases  perhaps  people getting on  each other's nerves confined together. Many  died 

from   exactly  the  same  diseases   as  those  outside  the wire  TB  or  flu  etc.

[Siridharmagalliano]

Pilates didnt die in camp though.
I have the British records too. most people were in the hospital for
TB or venereal diseases.

I am wondering since the hospitals were otside the wire, if the
Manx soldiers returning from war didnt go there too.

Have a fabulous book called 150 years of Manx Murders,
gives great cultural descriptions. just looking for the feel of the island
and island people and cant wait to hear their accents.

Interested in spring mattresses, as they say that;s where Pilates
got the idea to use springs as resistance for hospital patients on IOM;
lots of rumors and myths.

Loving the IOM, been collecting things like an obsessed idiot.
What a fascinating place, magic, and with an undercurrent of
mystery. Today they say it is a bigger place than the Cayman islands
to hide money.

so IOM owed Britain for the war and they just took over the island
as a prison. wow.
thank you for your response.
Siri Galliano
Big Bear , California

[Voirrey M]

The  IOM   is a  British  Crown Dependency---not  part  of  UK---rather  like  a  colony  but  someone  will  be  complaining
about  the  use  of  that  word.We  do  have  a  great  deal of indepence---own  parliament  Tynwald  from  Viking  times.
Her  Majesty Queen  Elizabeth  has  to  sign all  new  laws.
NO  as  I  explained   both  hospitals  were  in  the  camp  that is  why all  certs say"  died at  Knockaloe." No  Manx soldiers
returning home  went  there. All of  the English  staff  would  be  too old or  unfit for active service. Sadly one of  the suicides  was the  young camp doctor who  used  his pistol.
As  for  accents well  you will hear plenty but over  half of us are new arrivals from the UK ,Ireland &  foreign  parts.
The  Manx Government were happy to accept  internees &  prisoners of war  because few  tourists  were coming & hotels
empty. People  needed  support. For  example in WW2 when hotels were used as camps ,guards lodged  nearby--I  can see
such houses as  I  write.Obviously  they didn't  pay as  well  as tourists but you didn't go  bankrupt.

[Siridharmagalliano]

There is an autobiography, Time Stood Still, written by a German artist
interred in England, and then Douglas. Having no paints he became a writer
and wrote his experience and described the physical conditions. once when he
had to go to the hospital he describes being escorted out the barbed wire.
If you had a little money, the hospital was a good place to be, more food.

I read a history book on the IOM and they just never mentioned the war
or the camps. do you think they are embarassed, horrified, in denial,
dont care?
SDG

[Frances_mnb]

several accounts are online linked to http://www.manxnotebook.com/famhist/genealgy/intern.htm - including time stood still.

Not sure what history book you are referring to - there is no denial or hiding - there is a plaque on the wall at what is left of Knockaloe - the camp huts were sold post WW1 -  WW2 accomodation returned to housing holidaymakers - naturally the barbed wire fences were removed!.  The majority of graves at Kirk Patrick were removed in the 1960's to the main UK cemetary for POWs etc.

The Manx Museum has a active policy of acquiring any first hand accounts of camp life and is probably the best place to start research

[pilates]

Thank you for your kind reply.
I bought a book published in the '40's on the History of the Isle of Man
and no mention was made of WW1 or the camps in it. I found that interesting, that's all.
 
Apparantly, only in the 1990's was any light shed back on the subject of
Britain's rascism and immigration policies.

It is a huge topic, and trying to understand it from California!!!!!
yours,
Siri Galliano