Traveller ancestor ..still looking

[jaytoot]

Brilliant find Kath.

The marriage of William Newman and Marion de Sylla Zucco looks correct.

the 1901 Census shows
44 Springfield Rd
William Newman age 41 Bank Clerk born St Johns Wood London
Marion wife age 39 born St Pancras
Phyllis M age 1month born St Johns Wood
Plus 2 servants.

The age and Place of birth for Marion looks like a match.
So I wonder which Zucco she was with before she married William Newman.

Hope you are enjoying this DNA

regards,

Jim

[Steve G]

One thing I am not sure about is that when Constance was born, her father is listed as a Traveller. I have very limited knowledge but would someone from the Roma/Gypsy community have been recorded as a Traveller? Perhaps it means travelling salesman?

 Errr ..... That's a helluvva point, Jim! Frankly, I was blinded by the fact that all we were getting was that the guy was a Gypsy. This being the " Travelling People " board does rather tend to focus the mind in that way ...

 Now ye have me thinking. The Bob doesn't list " Perkis / Purkiss " what ever. But he does list " Purchas ". Bit ambiguous yet then.

 What's Not so ambiguous though is the (of it's day) use of the word / term " Traveller. Precious little PCness back then. Gypsys (of what ever persuasion) rather tended to be listed as things like " Travelling Gypsys ". The term " Traveller " having been adopted much more recently, on the scale of things as we discuss them.

 Snag is; Gypsys started prefering the term just about as the " Travelling Salesman " type 'Traveller' faded away. The bloke who used to turn up at the door with a suite case full of dusters and pan scourers ~ remember them? 

 Houston ....?

[katherinem]

Found Marion on the 1891 census as a widow with a son George G Zucco born Manchester 1886;  George is listed on several passenger lists (each giving an address of 42 Springfield Rd).  On each he is listed as:

1915 - From New York - Occupation Actor
1924 - From S Africa    - Occupation Stage
1927 - From New York - Occupation Actor.

Kath

[jaytoot]

Hi everyone.

Kath I couldn't find Marion in 1891 what last name is she using.

George is at a Grammar school in 1901 at Borden in Kent.

Also, I made a mistake in the 1911 census it is Connie (not Ann)who states she had 3 children but 1 had died.

I googled 'film george g zucco' Wikipedia has a lot about him. It also, suggests his English mother was a former lady in waiting to the Queen.

Also check out this link
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0958345/bio

Great stuff this.

Jim

[Steve G]

 He had a stroke, on the set of " Desert Fox " ?! Freak Me Out! I watched that (again) only last Friday!   

 Talk about a small world ....!

Still looks like we're moving ever further from the essence of this particular board though, doesn't it?  Some of the earlier stuff, around Melons and Mr P. could use papering, so we'd know if he was travelling in a vardo or dish cloths.

 Either way, cracking piece of family history!

Just to add another piece of bait; I'd suggest a mention of his military career could fetch up a whole load more stuff, if mentioned on The Great War Forum 

[jaytoot]

Just found something interesting at the national archives.

Naturalisation Papers: Zucco, George De Sylla, from Corfu, Greece. Certificate 4717 issued 3 June 1865.



Did Marion TRAVEL to Greece?
Could Marion have been Minna and therefor the mother of Constance?

Steve you are right there must be more information on his time in the war probably through regimental records.

Jim

[Steve G]

Jim; It's all getting a bit distant and vague now ~ that could be the whiskey and stout though!  But I believe the MIC is the next step. (Medal Index Card)

 Basically, if ye turned up, they gave ye at least one medal. That was listed on a MIC. Find his MIC and ye have a handle on him and so can cross check all sorts of insidious little things. Parents, home address etc.

 Only I honestly can't remember if ye find the MIC through his Service # or name. A.com / UK hold them though.

 Either way, the chaps on GWF ~ if ye talk to them nicely ~ are quite capable of dissecting the man to the nth degree. They could trot out his units entire history, thus adding another, full, dimension to the background of the man.

[Steve G]

 Here's our boy ....!

George Zucco

 

[DNA]

Thank you all very much,you are just brilliant.Now for me eating humble pie.
The comment about was William/Edward Purkis a Romany or "ordinary "traveller made me go back to the cert I obtained nearly 2 years ago and you pwople are just so right!
Underneath the Traveller is a bracket with(Grocery) written in.In my original excitement I didn't transfer this to the family chart and "traveller" seemed to fir into the odd stories about Constance and her life style viz gymnastics ,training with clubs,etc and her later life as very much a person with joi de vivre. My wife's family just didn't talk about her nan's past (quite different from mine)and the mystery of her independent means. When my wife was 7 or 8 she spent a lot of time with her nan who was living in a private hotel in Brighton.A season ticket at the theatre,trips to Paris from 1948 on.buying a house in one the streets leading down to the front etc. From 8 onwards her nan was a big influence in her life  a real "character".
So, many apologies but what you have found is amazing.Maybe Geo Zucco is the source of the moderate wealth Constance enjoyed?
Of course it doesn't solve the mystery of William/Edward and Minna/Wilhemina
If he was hlfway respectable surely he would have wed Minna but I can find no trace of a marriage.
I guess it will remain unsolved but all the things you have discovered add a real dimension to Constance.Fancy the posssibility of her having a relative?friend? in Marion Rintoul /Zucco/Newman who was a lady in waiting to the Queen.I have a Tydur/Tudor as a grt grt grt grandmother!!
The Purkis/Pukess family names are very much New Forest and the tinker/traveller was also something at the back of my mind but I was right up the wrong tree...apologies again.
If any other odd snippets arise I would dearly love to read them
Thank you all
DNA