This is becoming an obsession - sorry

[Jackie464]

following Emms thought and Herberts later connection with Tyldesley - there is a Herbert Jennings b. 1883 who is a visitor on the 1891  census at Alfred Street, Tydesley. Jackie

[mosiefish]

following Emms thought and Herberts later connection with Tyldesley - there is a Herbert Jennings b. 1883 who is a visitor on the 1891  census at Alfred Street, Tydesley. Jackie

Well, I am glad you have found this one too.  I suspect he became Herbert Stockton on the 1901 census listed as "Cousin" to Kate/Catherine Stockton.   It is a while since I tried to track him, but seem to remember I couldn`t find a suitable birth for a Herbert Jennings or Stockton. 

Regards.
Mo

[heywood]

Hello all,

Apologies for this being long winded - I am just trying to clarify the data  (I have to laugh-sorry)

It is quite tempting to connect Herbert callister/Jennings/Stockton but it is trying to link them that is the problem. It may  be that the Stockton is just dittoed but it still leaves the problem of where Jennings comes from.

Will-o-wisp
Do you know if the address on the birth certificate is a home for unmarried mothers or similar or a private address?
I was wondering if she was perhaps sent away from home to have the child as Manchester is a few miles from Tyldesley.

Who were the witnesses on his marriage certificate? Do they offer any clues?

Catherine Stockton comes from Haydock and is Mahon before marriage. I think this is her in 1871: RG10; Piece: 3900; Folio: 64; Page: 54
She is not at home with her mother in 1881 RG11; Piece: 3811; Folio: 89; Page: 31

There isn't a sister called Elizabeth that I can see who may have been the mother of Herbert 

John Stockton is with his brother Thomas and his wife Ann in 1881 RG11; Piece: 3811; Folio: 93; Page: 40
Possible marriage for Thomas to Hannah Burns in 1877-Leigh

Both Thomas and John are born Burslem Staffs in 1881.
1891 -John born Pemberton (has mother Mary Beesley b 1837 Shropshire with the family)

There is a possible for Thomas in 1861 boarding in Pemberton with parents William and Mary.
I feel I could go on finding/not finding these people with same/ different names and different places of birth... sometimes you wonder how we can be as successful as we are finding these ancestors 

Needless to say, at the moment, I am no nearer than I was a good while ago but thought I would post the 'findings' to help/discard any links with these families other than those census links. (for the time being... ever hopeful).

heywood

[ivanidea]

Good Evening all

Just a thought which I haven't really pursued: bearing in mind the Isle of Man connection (see previous thread) could the surname be McCallister (for which, in the censuses, there are quite a few different versions)?

There is this marriage:

Marriages Dec 1884   
Dunn  James    W. Derby  8b 591   
KEELEY  Eliza     W.Derby  8b 591   
McCallister  Eliza     W.Derby  8b 591   
McCallister  Elizabeth     W.Derby  8b 591   
Taylor  William Alexander     W. Derby  8b 591

As I say, just a thought!

Ivan

Edit:

... and this:

1901 census
(RG13 Piece 3637 Folio 139 Page 16)     
The Barracks, Bolton Road Elton Bury Lancashire 
MCCALLISTER, Herbert ,Inmate, Single, 19, Private Militia Infantry, born Bolton Lancs

(Shame he was born Bolton, though!)

[emmsthheight]

Hi Ivanidea

I don't know if that will end up being the one, but I did think about McCallister and even McAllister and similar.  We get loads up here from Scotland and especially Ireland who drop and pick up the Mc at will.

Also, if therte was a connection in Scotland or Ireland they may have wishes to Anglicise the name by removoing the Mc for privacy reasons.

Best wishes

Emms

[heywood]

Hi again,

i too thought that and actually looked up an Elizabeth McAllister who is in Wigan in 1881 aged 15 yrs with her mother Emma and several siblings. Then though I had to go out to church and have just returned (thinking about this I have to say) and lo and behold you also think on similar lines 

The trouble is that Elizabeth is still with her mother in 1891 
You would imagine that there is a connection somehow with those Stocktons but that is IF that is Herbert Callister in disguise.
heywood

[heywood]

quote from will-o-wisp:
1902 - Married to Martha Alice Cheetham St George's Parish Church, Tyldesley, Lancashire - address on cert. 19 Bank Street Tyldesley.

1901 19 Bank Street - Sarah Latchford 56 yrs and James her son 29 yrs   

It is District 19 where that Herbert is with the Stocktons.

[ivanidea]

A possible link between Stockton and Jennings:

Marriages Sep 1876   
Greeson  James    Manchester  8d 385   
Jennings  Catherine     Manchester  8d 385   
Mahon  Dennis     Manchester  8d 385   
Rice  Ellen     Manchester  8d 385   

1881 census
(RG11 Piece 4005  Folio 103 Page 13)     
13, Tebutt St Rochdale Rd, Manchester 
GREESON, James Head Married M 30  1851 Labourer Manchester
GREESON, Ellen Wife Married F 28  1853 Hawker Manchester
GREESON, James Son Single M 3  1878 Manchester
GREESON, Mary Daughter Single F 0  1881 Manchester
RICE, James Wifes Father Married M 60  1821 Hawker Ireland   

(So it would seem that Catherine Jennings married Dennis Mahon)

Possible death for Dennis:

Deaths Mar 1877   
MAHON  Dennis  39  Leigh  8c 161

Possible second marriage for Catherine

Marriages Mar 1883   
GEE  William    Leigh  8c 267   
MAHON  Catherine     Leigh  8c 267   
Stockton  John     Leigh  8c 267   
Whitehead  Ellen     Leigh  8c 267

Provisional data, of course!

Ivan

[heywood]

The only thing is Ivan that the Catherine Mahon who I think/thought married John Stockton has a father Dennis who dies between 1871 and 1881.
Also, Catherine Mahon/Stockton was Haydock and the marriages you have are Manchester.

I feel as though I just don't know though