1911 Occupation Codes - Help Needed

[troymantis]

Hello, I would like some help with a query that I have in relation the 1911 census.

My GG Grandfather was retired by the time of the census and had just starting receiving a pension.  He had worked as a Mariner in Merchant Service.

Am I to understand Merchant Service to be the Merchant Navy, or the import and export of goods via the sea?  I have recently found a website called CLIP (Crew Lists Index Project) at http://www.crewlist.org.uk/

I inputted my GG Grandfather's information and drew a blank.  There does not seem to be anyone of his name in the database.  On the 1911 census in column 10 (Personal Occupation) it reads, Mariner, Retired.  The enumerator had entered in green ink, a code of 350 (Retired from Business - not Army or Navy).

In column 11 (Industry or Service with which worker is connected) it reads Old Age Pension, with a code of 541 (Merchant Service; Seamen - Navigating Department).

My GG Grandfather was born in Liverpool, but registered in Cockermouth for his birth certificate.  He can be found on both the 1841/51 census returns in Workington, Cumberland.  He came back to Liverpool in 1872 and was married in Toxteth Park.

He then disappears until 1901 and 1911 respectively.  In the years that he was 'lost' did he serve in the Merchant Navy, or was he transporting goods across the sea?  It looks to me like he gets a pension from the Navy, but I may have misinterpreted the census.

Can anyone help?

troymantis

[Gadget]

Hi Troy

The Classification of Occupations is pretty tough going - it is based on Occupation and Industry and whether employed or self employed, etc. and has been developed with various minor an major changes since the censuses of the 19th century. The category 'Economically Active' is/was also used so that if your ancestor was retired he was classified as Economically Inactive and not classifed otherwise by the census coders.See:

http://surveynet.ac.uk/sqb/qb/resources/classification/socintro.htm

It's all pretty complicated and serious stuff and many books and academic papers have been written on the topic 


Gadget

[troymantis]

Way too complicated!

If I go to the Liverpool Records Office, will they be able to tell me who paid his pension?  I may be trying to simplify things too much here, but my train of thought, was that if I found out which industry he retired from, I may get information as to which vessel he travelled on, and could then locate him in the missing census returns.

I bet that's too simple isn't it? 

troymantis

[Gadget]

I've not done any work on this since the 1991 census, but it looks to me that it was a Merchant Navy pension. However, the State Pension was introduced in 1909 for those over 70.


Gadget

[troymantis]

Thank you, great that you're helping me   Can I ask a question?  If he was in the Merchant Navy, why can I not find him in the Crew Lists?

troymantis

[Gadget]

Sorry Troy - I wouldn't know the answer to  that for definite.

The coders would have taken what he said in the 1911 as the truth about his job. There would be no checks and if he said he was a Marine  - retired (merchant sevice, etc), he would have been coded as that.


Gadget

[troymantis]

Thank you,

I'm off to bang my head against a wall

troymantis

[Gadget]

Basically, you have to accept that the codes were primarily there to analyse the economic and social structure of the population  (for govenment purposes) at a given point in time (in this case 1911). The civil servant coders took what your ancestor said and coded this into particular categories  as best they could from the information he gave.

As far as Family History is concerned, what he said is more relevant than the codes so I'd not worry about them if I were you.


Gadget

[troymantis]

This is where you've lost me.

I am not the most academic person in the world, in fact, this very morning I have sat 2 exams (City and Guilds Level 2) in Maths and English, at my local DISC, the results of which will determine whether I can go on to a main site college and gain a place on an Access course.

I have very little education, and no knowledge of social history, but I am trying to improve my situation.  It was perhaps, a little naive of me to attempt to piece together my family history, when I am sometimes unable to grasp the subject. 

I thought that the codes were relevant in determining where he had spent his working life.  Like I have said previously, I have attempted to find him on online crew lists at various sites, NA, FindMyPast, CLIP and have returned no results.

This is why I got confused with 'merchant' service, Navy or transport of goods on the sea.  I think I might well leave this particular ancestor alone, it is I fear, much too difficult to fathom.

Thank you in your endeavours to help me   

merseyclyder