Author Topic: Burials by the church wall??  (Read 4458 times)

Offline Lydart

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Re: Burials by the church wall??
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 24 June 09 13:15 BST (UK) »
Have a look at this site ... its easy to follow, and has more than one Canford church ... but you might find yours, and it might give you info on when the extension was built


http://www.churchplansonline.org/
Dorset/Wilts/Hants: Trowbridge Williams Sturney/Sturmey Prince Foyle/Foil Hoare Vincent Fripp/Frypp Triggle/Trygel Adams Hibige/Hibditch Riggs White Angel Cake 
C'wall/Devon/France/CANADA (Barkerville, B.C.): Pomeroy/Pomerai/Pomroy
Som'set: Clark(e) Fry
Durham: Law(e)
London: Hanham Poplett
Lancs/Cheshire/CANADA (Kelowna, B.C. & Sask): Stubbs Walmesley

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Offline goldy

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Re: Burials by the church wall??
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 24 June 09 13:35 BST (UK) »
Cooper     Camberwell. Manchester
Callow        I.O.M.
Ellis, Heatley, Hayden,  Manchester
Mellings     Mertha

Offline stanmapstone

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Re: Burials by the church wall??
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 24 June 09 14:16 BST (UK) »


The 'devils side' is, according to superstition (which has NO place in a Christian setting !) the north side of the churchyard. 

The Devil's Door was a small door in the north wall of some old churches, which used to be opened at baptisms and communions to 'let the Devil out.'
The North side of the Churchyard was unconsecrated, and was where the mortal remains of transgressors were interred, usually those who had committed suicide or taken the lives of others. In many parishes the unconsecrated north side of the churchyard was effectively the village recreation field.

Stan
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Offline Lydart

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Re: Burials by the church wall??
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 24 June 09 14:24 BST (UK) »


The 'devils side' is, according to superstition (which has NO place in a Christian setting !) the north side of the churchyard. 

The Devil's Door was a small door in the north wall of some old churches, which used to be opened at baptisms and communions to 'let the Devil out.'

The North side of the Churchyard was unconsecrated, and was where the mortal remains of transgressors were interred, usually those who had committed suicide or taken the lives of others. In many parishes the unconsecrated north side of the churchyard was effectively the village recreation field.

Stan

Really ?    Do you have evidence or a ref for this Stan ?

I've never heard that said before !!

I thought suicides and 'transgressors' were buried outside the churchyard wall ... which would be the unconsecrated ground ... within the wall, it was all consecrated ground ...
Dorset/Wilts/Hants: Trowbridge Williams Sturney/Sturmey Prince Foyle/Foil Hoare Vincent Fripp/Frypp Triggle/Trygel Adams Hibige/Hibditch Riggs White Angel Cake 
C'wall/Devon/France/CANADA (Barkerville, B.C.): Pomeroy/Pomerai/Pomroy
Som'set: Clark(e) Fry
Durham: Law(e)
London: Hanham Poplett
Lancs/Cheshire/CANADA (Kelowna, B.C. & Sask): Stubbs Walmesley

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Offline Chris in 1066Land

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Re: Burials by the church wall??
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 24 June 09 14:34 BST (UK) »
Stan

Yes, I agree with you, - that is my understanding also.

The North side of the church was often referred to as the Devils side, mainly because the sun never shone on that side - it was always in the shade.

Inside the wall was always consegrated ground

Chris in 1066
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Offline Lydart

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Re: Burials by the church wall??
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 24 June 09 14:40 BST (UK) »
So I'm right in saying all ground OUTSIDE the churchyard wall is unconsecrated ?   But the north side INSIDE the wall is consecrated ?   





(It certainly is here in our church anyway !)
Dorset/Wilts/Hants: Trowbridge Williams Sturney/Sturmey Prince Foyle/Foil Hoare Vincent Fripp/Frypp Triggle/Trygel Adams Hibige/Hibditch Riggs White Angel Cake 
C'wall/Devon/France/CANADA (Barkerville, B.C.): Pomeroy/Pomerai/Pomroy
Som'set: Clark(e) Fry
Durham: Law(e)
London: Hanham Poplett
Lancs/Cheshire/CANADA (Kelowna, B.C. & Sask): Stubbs Walmesley

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Offline stanmapstone

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Re: Burials by the church wall??
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 24 June 09 14:56 BST (UK) »


Really ?    Do you have evidence or a ref for this Stan ?

I've never heard that said before !!


"The Companion to the English Parish Church" by Stephen Friar, pages 71, and  121.
He also points out that before the Reformation while the Chancel was the sanctum santorum, the nave was unconsecrated and beyond the jurisdiction of the parish priest or bishop, and the font at the back of the nave was also unconsecrated ground.

Although the entire churchyard is now consecrated ground this was not always so and there persisted into the nineteenth century the practice whereby the virtuous received burial on the salubrious south side of the church while felons, outcasts and unbaptised infants were consigned to perpetual shadow on the unconsecrated north side.

Stan
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Offline Lydart

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Re: Burials by the church wall??
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 24 June 09 15:00 BST (UK) »
So when a church was built 100's of years ago, in 'God's Acre' would the bishop only consecrate bits of the ground, and subsequently the building ?   

Sounds very odd to me !     Would the consecrated pieces of ground be marked in any way ? 

We have pre-reformation graves in our nave ...


Would Wales be different ?   (Not sure which side of the border Monmouthshire was at the time of the reformation ... all C of E until we got dis-established ... )
Dorset/Wilts/Hants: Trowbridge Williams Sturney/Sturmey Prince Foyle/Foil Hoare Vincent Fripp/Frypp Triggle/Trygel Adams Hibige/Hibditch Riggs White Angel Cake 
C'wall/Devon/France/CANADA (Barkerville, B.C.): Pomeroy/Pomerai/Pomroy
Som'set: Clark(e) Fry
Durham: Law(e)
London: Hanham Poplett
Lancs/Cheshire/CANADA (Kelowna, B.C. & Sask): Stubbs Walmesley

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Offline stanmapstone

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Re: Burials by the church wall??
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 24 June 09 15:18 BST (UK) »
Some additional information. Under the Burial Acts the vestry of any parish, whether a common-law or ecclesiastical one, was authorized to provide itself with a new burial ground, if its existing one was no longer available; such ground might be wholly or partly consecrated, and chapels might be provided for the performance of burial service. The ground was put under the management of a burial board, consisting of ratepayers elected by the vestry, and the consecrated portion of it took the place of the churchyard in all respects.

Stan
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk