Mary Lawson (b.1806) Avondale

[Ticadeau]

I have been so slow in responding as I have been unable to access the internet due to a password problem.

There must be a great many relatives in that area then.   As I flew about last night, I did notice smaller roads leading into windbreaks and houses.  Is Netherton Farm one of the Scott farms?  From the air, they are not far apart and close to Sorn where many Kirklands lived.

When you say they are not farmed, do you mean by Scotts or not farmed at all?  I thought I saw a Hyslop and Sons at Netherhall Farm. 

Is the peat used in distilleries?  I understand one who really knows his Scotch knows where the peat comes from?  You do not farm?  While I am so charmed by the old stone mansion's I imagine you would be awed by climbing down into the Cliff Dwellings of Mesa Verde in Colorado.

The Homes also lived at Spott and were involved in the Priory in Coldingham.  I have communicated with a keeper of the priory, Rennie Wurtherhead, who spoke of  'those awful Homes'.  Is it the economist who changed his name to Hume because he was so ashamed of his family?  Rennie said his name had to do with sheep hearders.  So when I went to the sheep and wool fair, I went around asking where the wurtherheads were!  I did just buy a hand woven woollen blanket from the MacAuslands of the Island of St. John's off the Eastern shore of Canada.  Last night was oddly cold for August and it was a warmpth I have never known.  They are still using some of the old equipment from 300 years ago!

I think we called her Lady Mary Hay because she was so special to those of us who lived in a much less pretentious state.  While her name may have disappeared in Peerage books, my grandmother never wrote just Mary Kirkland.  It was always Mary Hay Kirkland.  Always.  I wish I had known my grandmother. 

I am a little overwhelmed at the moment with my new iPhone.  I justify it by believing it will help me get about Scotland when I do not have to go by Google Earth.  It is amazing!  My son shall be able to get my GPS at anytime while I am there.  At this point in my life, that is a favorable feature.  The reverse would probably not be true if HE were on travel! 

                        Sincerely,
                                         Shirley

[Ticadeau]

The following genealogy was sent to me by a genealogist in Aberdeen.  Remember she was addressing someone who knew nothing.

The earlier generations were called Lord Hay of Yester (from 1487).  One of them was made Earl of Tweeddale by Cromwell in 1646, during the Covenanting period.  He was against Charles I, but his son changed sides and was for Charles II, and therefore got the upgrade to Marquess.  The younger sons of the family would have an estate bought for them and be known by its name, e.g.  Hay of Drumelzier, Hay of Spott, etc.   Sometimes these estates came into the family through the wife's dowry.

Your William was born 30 Dec 1699.  His parents were Alexander Hay of Spott and Catherine Charters, who were married 22 April 1697.  William was the 2nd son, and inherited Lawfield on the death of his unmarried brother, Robert.

 His father, Alexander, was a younger brother of the 2nd Marquess of Tweeddale.  Their parents were John Hay, 1st Marquess of Tweeddale (the one who was a Colonel in the Covenanting Army, but then changed sides) and Jean, daughter of the Earl of Buccleugh.


My insertion follows.

This is where the Charles II comes in.  I have read that the first illegitimate son of Charles II was made Duke of Buccleugh.  Jean is our link to Charles II.



His parents were John Hay 1st earl of Tweeddale and Jean, daughter of the Earl of Dunfermline.

His parents were James Hay, 7th Lord Hay of Yester (Note -not Lord Yester) and Margaret, daughter of the Earl of Lothian.

His parents were William Hay, 5th Lord Hay of Yester and Margaret Kerr.  This was another one who changed his mind, starting off supporting Mary Queen of Scots, fighting for her at the Battle of Langside, but them swooping to the opposition a year or 2 later.

His parents were John Hay, 4th Lord Hay of Yester and Margaret, daughter of Lord Livingstone.  He spent some time in the Tower of London as a prisoner of war.

His parents were John Hay, 3rd Lord Hay of Yester and Elisabeth, sister of the Earl of Angus.

His parents were John Hay, 2nd Lord Hay of Yester and Elizabeth Crichton.  He died at the Battle of Flodden.

His parents were John Hay, 1st Lord Hay of Yester and Mariot, daughter of Lord Lindsay.

Remember, I do not know your history as  well as you do and spelling may not be 100 percent correct. 

[Ticadeau]

The following genealogy was sent to me by a genealogist in Aberdeen.  Remember she was addressing someone who knew nothing.

The earlier generations were called Lord Hay of Yester (from 1487).  One of them was made Earl of Tweeddale by Cromwell in 1646, during the Covenanting period.  He was against Charles I, but his son changed sides and was for Charles II, and therefore got the upgrade to Marquess.  The younger sons of the family would have an estate bought for them and be known by its name, e.g.  Hay of Drumelzier, Hay of Spott, etc.   Sometimes these estates came into the family through the wife's dowry.

Your William was born 30 Dec 1699.  His parents were Alexander Hay of Spott and Catherine Charters, who were married 22 April 1697.  William was the 2nd son, and inherited Lawfield on the death of his unmarried brother, Robert.

 His father, Alexander, was a younger brother of the 2nd Marquess of Tweeddale.  Their parents were John Hay, 1st Marquess of Tweeddale (the one who was a Colonel in the Covenanting Army, but then changed sides) and Jean, daughter of the Earl of Buccleugh.


My insertion follows.

This is where the Charles II comes in.  I have read that the first illegitimate son of Charles II was made Duke of Buccleugh.  Jean is our link to Charles II.



His parents were John Hay 1st earl of Tweeddale and Jean, daughter of the Earl of Dunfermline.

His parents were James Hay, 7th Lord Hay of Yester (Note -not Lord Yester) and Margaret, daughter of the Earl of Lothian.

His parents were William Hay, 5th Lord Hay of Yester and Margaret Kerr.  This was another one who changed his mind, starting off supporting Mary Queen of Scots, fighting for her at the Battle of Langside, but them swooping to the opposition a year or 2 later.

His parents were John Hay, 4th Lord Hay of Yester and Margaret, daughter of Lord Livingstone.  He spent some time in the Tower of London as a prisoner of war.

His parents were John Hay, 3rd Lord Hay of Yester and Elisabeth, sister of the Earl of Angus.

His parents were John Hay, 2nd Lord Hay of Yester and Elizabeth Crichton.  He died at the Battle of Flodden.

His parents were John Hay, 1st Lord Hay of Yester and Mariot, daughter of Lord Lindsay.

Remember, I do not know your history as  well as you do and spelling may not be 100 percent correct.  

[Will Jr]

Hello,  sorry to interrupt this thread, but a Google search landed me here. I am a descendant of Robert Turnbull b. 1808, a Scottish tailor who immigrated to Canada about 1830-1835. His father was reportedly a London tailor and British army non-com officer who married the daughter of a noblewoman; the daughter was disowned, and the couple moved to Scotland where Robert was born.

Does any of this story fit with James Turnbull or another Turnbull as noted above?

Thank you.

[Ticadeau]

Will, there is a likelyhood.  Our James Turnbull was a stocking weaver in Edinburgh.  His daughter Elizabeth was the first wife of William Hay of Spott and Lawfield.  James would probably have been of the 1700's.  Children often stayed in the same or a similar profession.  He most likely had children other than his daughter Elizabeth.   You might descend from him.  This disowning tradition often took place in those days.  A tailor, Peter Sellers, was at the marriage of our Mary Hay.   I live in America and relied on Fiona Sinclare of Aberdeen who makes routine trips to Ediburgh to do research.  She has access that not everyone has and incredible knowledge of Scotland's history.  You might send her a note at (*).  If this address does not make it through Roots Chat, just Google Fiona Sinclare as she has many sights on the internet.  Roots Chat itself may offer some  research for you. 

                Sincerely,  Shirley

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[biggar lass]

I have just discovered this site whilst looking for the history of my ancestor Lady Mary Hay. My grandmother was Isabella Carruthers (nee Kirkland). An aunt was kind enough to do a family tree for me a few years ago and at the top was LM Hay!
 I think this makes her my great,great,great,great grand mother. Her daughter Bess married Hugh Kirkland, their son William married a McColl, a son Angus married a Watson and one of their daughters was my grandmother Isabella. Isabella went on to marry William Carruthers they had 12 children, 3 died in infancy. 5 including my mother are still alive. I have 38 cousins in this side of the family!
I was intrigued to see we may go as far back as Edward 1st.
Anne

[Ticadeau]

Anne, you now have one more cousin!  My grandmother was the youngest of William Kirkland and Isobel McColl's children.  She was named after our lady Mary Hay.  Her name was Mary Hay Kirkland.  One of her sister's left some money to my mother and it was Isabella Carruthers who went to great effort to find my mother in America to see that she received the money.  I have some letters written by Isabella.  My mother and I met Bill and Margaret Carrouthers in 1966 or 67 at Netherton Farm.
I have seen Avon Bank farm where Angus and his wife lived.  My grandmother lived there also while taking care of the children of Angus when his wife died.  I assumed he remarried.  My home is near DC.  and I just returned from a month in Scotland.  You have several cousins in Australia as well.
Shirley

[Ticadeau]

Anne, you now have one more cousin!  My grandmother was the youngest of William Kirkland and Isobel McColl's children.  She was named after our lady Mary Hay.  Her name was Mary Hay Kirkland.  One of her sisters left some money to my mother and it was Isabella Carruthers who went to great effort to find my mother in America to see that she received the money.  I have some letters written by Isabella.  My mother and I met Bill and Margaret Carrouthers in 1966 or 67 at Netherton Farm.
I have seen Avon Bank farm where Angus and his wife lived.  My grandmother lived there also while taking care of the children of Angus when his wife died.  I assumed he remarried.  My home is near DC.  and I just returned from a month in Scotland.  You have several cousins in Australia as well.
Shirley

[biggar lass]

Hello Shirley,
On my Family tree it states a Mary Kirkland went to Denver Colorado, I presume this is your grand mother? Did you see Bill this time when you were here ? He will be 80 this year.
Have you discovered anything about LM Mary's ancestors, some one from Lanark seems to have a great deal of informaton and links her as great granddaughter of Marquess of Tweeddale? Possibly even back to Edward 3rd and Edward 1st. It would be great to complete the jig saw. I will go to St Brides Douglas and see the family graves next time I am in the area.
Anne