Sinclair/ Wallace New Zealand

[mahatmacoat]

Hi all,
         can anyone out there help me trace my relatives???
searching for any relatives (or any info) on the family of George Sinclair and
Mary Heron, emmigrated to NZ in 1857 from Fife Scotland with their children-

Alexander b 1834
mary b 1836 who i believe married John Wallace around 1861 in Dunedin.
Ages b 1838
John b 1833
                       all of them b Fife Scotland

parents George and mary burried in Dunedin cemetry, George died 1875 and was a Grocer, he was my GGGgrandfather.

  can anyone shed any light on this so far fruitless search???, i'm trying to
find any relatives that may still be around in Dunedin!.
               many thanks to all,       Robert (in England)   

[Lucy2]

Hi Robert

I'm not sure how we can help you with this ?

If George SINCLAIR is your GGGgrandfather (presume you mean 3 x g/gf ?) ... then one of his children (which you've named here),  is your great-great-grandparent ... and that being the case, then you would already have some information on that "child"

You've given the name of Mary SINCLAIR (b. 1836) and then said  ... "I believe married John WALLACE in 1861".   (Is there some doubt about this ?    This marriage IS recorded on the NZ Marriage index ).


Is MARY your connection ??   

If so, what further information do you have (which could be helpful in tracing descendants) ??

Lu

[Lucy2]

Hi again

The George SINCLAIR you refer to as having died in 1875, is buried at  the Northern Cemetery, Dunedin,  Block 41 - Plot 10 :

Buried in same plot :

Margery SINCLAIR - died 1877 aged 70
EDITED to add - NZ Death index records the age of Margery SINCLAIR as being 76 years (born circa 1801)  ... is this George's wife, who you've named as "Mary" ??

John WALLACE - d. 1897 ... age at death not recorded.

Hellen WALLACE - d. 1896 aged 26 years

Emma Rosina WALLACE - d. 1892 aged 21 years.

You can view this cemetery record at  >>

http://www.dunedin.govt.nz/facilities/cemeteries/cemeteries_search


Lu
 

[mahatmacoat]

Hi Lu,
         thanks so much for your reply, my 3xG/GF George sinclair married twice
in Scotland, i decend from his first marriage to mary Temple, he married her in 1826 then, after having 3 children with mary temple, he married mary Heron in
1833 in Fife Scotland.
He had the children i have already mentioned with mary Heron and in 1857 he
emmigrated with them to Dunedin.
I noticed what you said about George's wife's name, Margery???, wonder if he
had married yet again? as i know for sure that the George sinclair burried in plot 41 is definately my George.

I have been searching for about 8 years for George's death certificate in Scotland and iv'e only just discovered that he emmigrated and married again,
this has been very challenging so any help you can give me would be much appreciated.
                    I really appreciate you helping me with this Lu!.
                               kind regards Robert.

P.S I only knew about mary marrying John Wallace because of the Dunedin cemetry website, i then found an old newspaper website for Dunedin and this mentioned the marriage and that my George was indeed mary's father!.

[Lucy2]

Hi Robert

Mmmm ... all a bit a of mystery this SINCLAIR family.   
I know you are saying that the George who died at Dunedin in 1875, is "definately" your 3xg/f, BUT  ... having read through your other threads on this subject, I still have some reservations.       However, we can still have a look at NZ records, and see if we can sort some of this out.

Firstly, a New Zealand death certificate of 1875,  will not unfortunately give you sufficient information to prove that this is your George.  [Recorded in 1875 ... Name, age, when/where died, occupation, cause of death, name/address of informant, date death registered :]

Archives New Zealand (Dunedin office),  hold a probate record ...  "SINCLAIR - George - Dunedin - grocer - 1875" ... but this too may not be terribly helpful ?

Margery SINCLAIR :   There appears to be an error on the Dunedin cemeteries database, not in the christian name, but in the stated "age at death" ?    I checked the NZ online death index, and her name is spelled as "Margery", but (death) age is given as "76 years" (rather than "70" on cem. record).

There is no record that I can see, of a George SINCLAIR having married a "Margery" in New Zealand.

                                        continued next post >>

[Lucy2]

 ---    SINCLAIR  -   continued ...

I haven't managed to find a record of the arrival of the SINCLAIR family in NZ (in 1857 or any other time).     We also need to be wary of what is recorded under "years in NZ", quite often this is only a bit of guesswork by an informant to a death.   Sometimes accurate, but very often not.    There is the possibility too that members of the family may have travelled separately ( i.e. at different times).

To assist with the search here, do you have the following ?

*   Baptism / birth records for the children of George and Mary Heron ?

*   Do these four children have additional christian names ?

*   The marriage record for George to Mary HERON - 1833 ?

Lu

[mahatmacoat]

Hi Lu, i can't tell you how much i appreciate all of your help with this!.

To answer your questions, yes i have a record of the George and mary Heron's marriage in 1833,
it's an OPR so it holds very little info apart from George being a Grocer.

I have the record of the ship sailing from London in 1857 and arriving in NZ Dunedin with George
his wife and all the children with them, so i know for sure that George (who married mary Heron)
definately went to NZ in 1857.

I know of no Middle names for any of their children though.

I know what you mean about the name Margery though, confusing isn't it! surely he didn't marry again!!, or did he??.

I found a newspaper article in 1861 mentioning that George's daughter had married John Wallace,
this also confirmed that George was from the same place in Fife Scotland and that he was a Grocer,
so wer'e not inconsistant.

The LDS family search also has the records of George and mary's children, all b in Fife,
i have them on the 1841 and 1851 census, after this, they all dissapear.

So as you can see Lu, it all looks like were on the right path.

My E-mail is ^(*)            if you would like any of the original documents?.

            thanks again Lu for everything as i know how confusing this one is!!.
                                            kindest regards Robert.

(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.

[mahatmacoat]

Hi LU,   i  thought the record of the ship might be useful!, also the name May is used alot in Scotland for mary!

                 George Canning

Otago Witness – Saturday December 5, 1857 page 4

Shipping News
Arrived, November 28, George Canning, 411 tons, barque, Captain Sims, from London to Port Chalmers. Sailed on 23rd August. Made a good passage of 97 days, port to port.  She was the first in a series despatched by the emigration agent, James Adam, who had been sent home from Otago. 131 Passengers:

Buskin      Mary A and 2 children
Blair      Robert age 46 b. Ayrshire 1810.  Agnes Dick (wife), Robert, Agnes, Margaret, Janet and John (Robert farmed East Taieri Dunedin)
Borrow      Mr and Mrs T and 3 children
Butlar      John Geo.
Calder      C
Cahill      Thomas
Carless      John, Patience, Patience, Emily, Hannah, William, John, and Frederick
Cassells   Thomas, Janet, Margaret, Mary and Caroline
Cavanagh   John and Anna
Chittock   Mr Fred and Mrs
Chittock   George and Emily and 4 children
Clarke      Mr
Cockrill   Richard
Dunkley      Dennis
Fairmaid   Mr
Finlay      Helen, Marion, Jean, and James
Ford      Mr J
Ford      William
France      Mr and Mrs C and 3 children
France      Mr and Mrs J and child
Gough      Mr and Mrs R
Hammond      Charles, Sarah, Dinah, Martha, Richard Lates and Thomas Herbert Hammond
Hepburn      Mr and Mrs A
Hepburn      W
Jago      John, Mary Ann, Maria, John, Mary Ann, Charles, Julia, Sydney and Alfred
Leckie      Stewart, Agnes, Stewart, Archibald, John, Elizabeth, Agnes, Helen, and James William
Lewis      Mr
McKenzie   Mr
McCree      J
McVey      Joseph
Mathie      Alexander, Priscilla, Agnes, Helen, Emy, Catherine, Alexander
Morris      Aaron
Morris      William, Ann, Sarah  Maria, Thomas, Elizabeth, and William
Nairne      Mr
Paterson   D
Paterson   James
Perry      Edward, Elizabeth, Edward Jas., and Wm
Prime      H.G.
Russell      Mr
Senior      J
Shand      Mr and Mrs, Misses (2) and 3 children
Sinclair   George, May, Alexander, May, Agnes and John
Small      Mr
Smith      Miss
Stewart      Miss
Stone      F
Tilly      Chas. and Barbara
Wain      John, Mary Margaret, Frederick, Margaret Elizabeth
Wain      Ann Sophia, Joseph William, and Suhannah
Watson      Mr   
The foregoing list includes 2 tailors, 2 storekeepers, 1 servant, 9 farmers, 1 clerk, 1 butcher, 1 carpenter, 20 labourers, 1 engineer, 3 shepherds, 1 dairymaid. 
Per George Canning, from London:     2 cases books
   1 ditto apparel
  20 ditto glass
100 cases Geneva
 20 bundles square iron
 20 do. hoop iron
  51 camp ovens
  51 lids for ditto
    1 coil rope
    1 case seed
    1 box books
    2 casks whiskey
    1 case clothing
  42 tons coal
    6 hhds. rum  83 cases soap
 20 kegs arsenic
   4 bars iron
   4 bundles ditto
   6 ploughs
   2 wheels
    1 axle
    3 parcels
112 casks
209 cases
  30 barrels
   6 trunks
 10 bales
 30 kegs
   4 boxes

Saturday 26 Dec., 1857 Otago Witness

Sailed Dec. 18, George Canning, 411 tons, Sim, for Callao, in ballast, with one passenger.

[Lucy2]

Hello again Robert

You did really well finding that shipping record ! 
(I'd been relying on a "surname" search to find it).

Have to repeat,  ... (and I may be wrong), but I still don't think that this George in NZ, is the right one.  ??
My reasons :

*   I think it's rather odd, that a man would have two sons named "Alexander", especially as the Alexander of the first marriage to Mary TEMPLE, was still alive (died 1885 ) ?

*   You say "your George" was from North Leith (Midlothian).
(The 1861 (NZ) marriage notice for Mary SINCLAIR to John WALLACE, states that her father was from Wemyss (Fife) ??)

*   Even though the sons of the Sinclair/Temple marriage were born in Leslie (Fife),  ...  there are no 1841 census records for that location which can confirm the familys' presence there. 

*   The "George SINCLAIR"  (of a roughly similar age) - 1841 at Abbotshall and 1851 at Wemyss, might perhaps give the impression that this could be "your George" and that he may have re-married.    But, in the absence of death record for first wife Mary (Temple), (AND the presence of yet "another" son named Alexander),  it is wise not to automatically assume this is the same "George" that you are seeking.    (I note also on your Fife thread, that somebody had posted a reference to an 1857 marriage for a son of Mary (Temple), which seemed to indicate she was still alive at that date ??)

But having said all that, I'm still happy to provide you with any information I can find, for the "George SINCLAIR and family" who came to New Zealand.    By doing so, it may be possible to discover "new clues" and thus solve the puzzle.   

I'll post some further info, shortly.

Lu