Thomas PAICE b.abt 1826 Basingstoke

[trish1120]

There are several deaths of a William Paice, Bassingstoke 1841-1851 to pick out conclusive one as ages are not shown.


Trish

[trish1120]

1841 Census         HO107/385/6/Basingstoke         
Basingstoke               

Mary PAICE, 80, independant,born in county
Charles Paice, 20, auctioneer, born in county
Charlotte Geddin, F.S., born in county

So Charles was with Grandma Mary Wigg/Paice1841
Very lucky to have such detail on 1841 census

[Full]

Hi Trish & Dee-Jay
Thanks for all the info so far. I had found out about Mary HEADING but I was not sure of the link and wanted to see if you came to the same conclusion. I felt that Thomas was part of the William Paice and Mary Heading family but couldn't confirm the link as it appears he was down the road at the Haughton's place at census time in 1841.

In the 1841 census I also found Charles age 20 (Olderest brother) living with Mary age 80 most likely his grandmother which lines up with your findings Trish of Mary WIGG (Wigg rings a bell, I have come across it before, I will check).
 
Trish, you asked about Thomas's occupation. On his marriage certificate it is a bit hard to read but looks like Ground Keeper. His death notice says he arrived in Portland, Vic with sheep for the Henrys, then notes that he was a gold miner in the stawell area and later took up land in the district.

Some other information I have found was in the 1861 Census. RG 9/460 at 186 Park Road, Richmond, Surrey was Elizabeth M Paice age 29, Widow, Proprietor Houses. He five children living with her were all born in Basingstoke. Visitors at the house at census time were Agnes Glover aged 15 and Ester Hayes aged 23. These names of Hayes and Glover led me to believe that Elizabeth was married to one of Thomas's brother because these names were the middle names of two girls from Thomas's children in Australia. I searched for Charles on the marriage records that would have been married after census of 1851 and before 1853 (birth of first child, Charles) I found a Charles married 1851, so I sent away for the birth certificate which confirmed that Charles Paice b.1818 Auctioneer, living at Winchester St Basingstoke, father William, upholsterer, married Elizabeth Mary Hayes b. 1831, living at Andover. Witnesses at the marriage were Mary Ann Paice (mother) H.Paice (Probably Henrietta, sister) and C.H. Paice (don't know)

Thats all a bit long winded. I have had a picture of the family group but I just need to confirm the link of Thomas into this family. The names all look right. I will review all the info you have sent and maybe we can validate it all. The thing I got stuck on was that on Thomas's marriage certificate it states that his father's occupation was a farmer and in the 1841 census it says he was a cabinet maker also on Charles's marriage certificate it says is father was an upholsterer.  

Looking through the Death Index today: Oct/Nov/Dec 1848 I found William Paice, Basingstoke Vol 7, Pg 50 (probably Thomas's father)

So confused, Rob

[trish1120]

Your not the only one confused
It all seems to tie up except for occupations.

Trish

[dee-jay]

Don't ever take anything on a certificate as 'gospel', especially after arrival in a new country! 

What sounds better to impress a bride and/or her family:  farmer or upholsterer?  He arrived with sheep and probably aspired to being a farmer.  It appears he also 'fiddled' with his age if  arriving in 1852 aged 32:  by my calculation that would have given a birth year of 1820! 

I have a similar experience of a market trader/gardener operating a family greengrocer stalll in a West Midlands city market:  travelling to USA he also aspired to the occupation of 'farmer'.  Fortunately for me, in border crossings a brother appeared earlier in the list and both gave their married sister, an earlier emigrant, as their contact.

Although there is as yet no 'conclusive' proof in the PAICE links, the subsequent names of Thomas's issue might just tip the balance of probability.  Alternatively, we might have to search for those named Thomas missing from farming families in other North Hampshire districts close to Basingstoke [eg Pamber, Dummer, etc].

Next time at HRO I'll check out the post-1837 Basingstoke burials and, possibly, marriages of likely siblings to see if Thomas appeared as a witness.

Update:
The marriage witness Mary Ann was more likely sister to Charles.  Can you please advise the name of the church[?] where the marriage was performed so that I know where to start?  Was the certificate obtained from the GRO and, if so, was it a printed extract or a hand-written copy?  If I can locate the original in a Parish Register there could be clearer signatures.

Is there no record of a likely Thomas in the 1851 UK Census?

Listed in the HRO online catalogue [aka CALM Database] there are a couple of interesting wills, particularly for William PAICE 1829 and 1843 Cabinet Maker & Upholsterer of Basingstoke.  I'll take a look at my next visit.  There are also other interesting documents [search for William Paice at http://calm.hants.gov.uk/DServe/ ].

[Full]

Hi Dee-Jay
Thanks for all your help and encouragement. Just waking up, Sunday morning 8:00am in Brisbane, Australia.

Just a correction to start - I put the wrong age on Thomas at his arrival in Australia,  it was 28 not 32, which would give him DOB of 1824 or 1823.

Marriage Certificate: Charles and Mary. I bought a registered copy from GRO, hand written copy.
Application No. COL361191,  4th Sept 1851 at the Independent Chapel in the Parish of Andover, Southampton.
Charles Paice, 33, Bachelor, Auctioneer, Winchester St, Basingstoke. Father: William Paice - Upholsterer.
Elizabeth Mary Hayes, 20, Spinster, no rank/profession, High St, Andover. Father: Edward Hayes - Draper.
Witnesses: Edward Hayes, William ?anner (can't read first letter, could be V) Mary Ann Paice, H.Paice, C.H.Paice

I went through the 1851 census and couldn't find a Thomas that would fit, I will check again.

Again, thanks for the help, looking more positive.
Rob



 

[dee-jay]

Hmmm.  I can't see that HRO holds registers for the Andover Independent Chapel but I will endeavour to track down the Marriages Register if held locally.  I have a feeling that the last signature might be E.H. PAICE, which beggars the question, where was Thomas if his younger siblings were being recorded as witnesses?

Unfortunately, if the Independent Chapels had their own burial grounds, we may be facing similar problems locating burials.

[trish1120]

Hi Full,

I have been looking for Thomas in 1851 and came upon a couple of Charles Wedding witnesses

1851 Census                   HO107/1681/196/2

8 Wote Street
Basingstoke,Hampshire

William VANNER, 28, head,m, Miller/corn dealer, employing 2 men, born Guildford Surrey
Eliza , 25, wife, m, born Basingstoke
William.T, 2, son
James.C., 1, son
Mary.E, 1mth, daug All born Basingstoke
MARY ANN PAICE, 32, unm, sister-in-law, visitor, Basingstoke
Mary.A.Watmore, 19, servant
Mary Rampton, 14, servant

Marriage;
Eliza PAICE
William VANNER
September 1847
Basingstoke
7 103

Trish

[trish1120]

Death;

Mary Ann PAICE
March 1884
Basingstoke, 2c 121
Aged 65 ( born c. 1819)


Marriage;

Sarah Wills PAICE
September 1842
Basingstoke 7 121
3 grooms on page but think with name mentioned before it will be William GLOVER. Havent checked yet but Agnes must be their daughter

Ellen Heading PAICE married March 1868, Basingstoke to either Mr Schoobraid, Albino or Frewin-should be easy to trace!!

Trish

EDIT; Ellen married John SCHOOLBRAID and is in Aldershot on 1871 Census under SCHOOLBUND . It does not even have John transcribed but he is on actual image, born Scotland + son aged 7.
RG10/816/105/49.
That is the only census she appears on as a married woman.

Death;
Ellen Heading SCHOOLBRAID
December 1875
Farnham 2a 59
Aged 48 ( c.1826)