1911 Search

[millymcb]

Hi

I've just realised that Alfred Leopold is your mysterious Fancy Goods Maker from Blackpool. He is causing a lot of trouble isn't he?   

I've had a look around with various combinations of names and still can't see him in 1911.   Like you I can find no marriage for Elsie Ould and Alfred Collier (or Stafford).

The only link to Collier I can see is that Alfred's sister Amy appears to have married a Collier.
No sign of anyone called Afred though.  In 1911 they are married with a daughter and living in Fylde (possibly why Alfred was living in Fylde when he died?)
Mar 1906  Fylde    8e   987   
COLLIER    Reginald Peter        
Stafford    Amy Beatrice       

Reginald does have a sister called Elsie M Collier in 1891 census



This Elsie Ould is probably too old and in wrong location anyway - but just to discount her... 
OULD    Elsie Madeleine born 1880 in Stalybridge and lived in Birkenhead.
She married  Hugh Stirling ASHWORTH in Dec 1907...and in 1911 Census they have children and are living in Sussex.  No sign of a marriage of an Elsie Ashworth to a Collier.


Also - Did Alfred Leopold's mother Betsy die and his father remarried Phoebe?  It says Betsy on his birth cert but later Census has Phoebe as mother.  (Of course I cannot find a marriage for Alfred and Phoebe! Perhaps it is still Betsy under another name)


 


Any thoughts anyone??

Milly

[glitter2009]

Hi Milly,

Thanks for looking for me - Alfred is a mystery ...........its soooooo annoying.
He seems like he was a bit of a wheeler dealer !!!!!

I also found a few Elsie Ould's but I think the one which you mentioned is too old, and there is not really any links to connect her with my Alfred.
The others died, and the only one still called Elsie Ould lived in Cornwall in 1911.

Maybe there was a cover up somewhere with Elsie Ould, maybe she wasn't Alfred John's real Mother ...... I am in the process of trying to look for any electoral registers in the London area, but I have to visit in person. I thought this might tell me who was living at the address's on AJS Birth Cert.
Maybe Reginald's Sister Elsie, was a link somewhere along the line

ALS Mother was called Betsy Haworth, and she later died, and his Father remarried Phoebe.
As you said I cannot find a marriage between them, but I think she must of been a relative of Betsy's.

 

[millymcb]

You could be right about Phoebe..  There is a family in 1871 in Darwen with father George Howarth (a farmer), mother Betsy,  daughter Betsy Howarth born 1852 and sister Phebe Howarth born 1855. Could this be them?
RG10/4190/161/p32
http://www.rootschat.com/links/06ih/



Also the daughter Mabel's middle name is Haworth on the 1911 Census. I presume this is Phoebe's daughter as she is only 1 month old in the 1891 and that Betsy died (age 35)  Q Jun 1888  Burnley    8e   151
(younger children Percy & Ethel also have Haworth as middle name)

Still can't find a marriage for Phoebe though. If you looked at original 1911 census it should say how long they say they were married. (There was not much time between 1888 and 1891 for them to marry so maybe they didn't marry then but did it later or not at all)
OR  Phoebe was previously married and widowed which is why she married Alfred. So the marriage would not be listed under Howarth/Haworth.

But this still doesn't help with Alfred Leopold does it? 

Milly

[glitter2009]

Thanks for coming back to me.

The Census states that they had been married for 22 years, but I still cannot see a marriage on Free BMD for them ??

On the origianal report it states that they have 6 children, 4 still living and 2 died, but I think they may have got this wrong.
They was living at :
17 Chase Street, Blackpool.

As you said it still doesnt help with finding Alfred Leopold in 1911 census .......
I will still carry on looking, I might find a lead one day !!!

Thanks   

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[millymcb]

22 years fits the 1888-1891 gap from death of Betsy to birth of Mabel....but still no sign of it.

The information on number of children only relates to Phoebe and John (not his children with Betsy) so 4 living and 2 died is possible.   On an earlier census (1901) there was also daughter Minnie who could be the fourth living child. 

There is a Minnie Stafford (born 1895 Blackburn) living in Bury in 1911 census which could be her.  (I couldn't work out much else but she could be living with Lillie Stafford born Burnley 1877 and Janet Warren b 1887 - but check original as I am not 100% about this.  ) I think Lillie could be Minnie's half sister (or possibly a sister-in-law?).  Not sure who Janet Warren is.

But still no Alfred...


Maybe he was abroad, or in the army or in jail!   I expect he will turn up one day..


Milly
 

[glitter2009]

Thanks for your help Milly.
I will look into the other family members in the 1911 census, as this might help me.

I hope he does turn up one day !!!! Fingers Crossed ......


 

[glitter2009]

Just been told that ALL the 1911 census are now out to view, but I still cannot find Alfred Leopold, so he must of been in hiding !!!!

[Mair]

Glitter

I can't assist with the search bit of the census but the "Chase St" you have for the address in Blackpool will more than likely be Charles Street.  This street still runs eastwards from the outskirts of todays town centre toward Layton - near to where Broughton Avenue is - the last address you have for your most annoyingly elsuive Alfred Leopold.

M

PS   As his father's address is within walking distance of Alfred's address and Alfred's sister Amy is in and around the area why not follow that line as i see there were descendants (that could be "are" descendants hence no names here) If they themselves are traceable they may be able to assist you as to the whereabouts of their great/uncle.

[glitter2009]

Hi Mair,

Looking closer I think the road says ' Clare Street'.

I am in the process of trying to look into the others members of the family, as this might give me a clue as to the wear abouts of Alfred Leopold ......

I am waiting on some information from the local records office on where abouts he was buried, and about how long he was in the workshouse for.
I will let you know when this arrives.