Shorthand - can you help decipher?

[cando]

Hi Ian

It would wonderful it someone could transcribe these pages to add to the PAGE history in SA.  It has been a long and interesting journey so far

Best wishes
Cando

[yelkcub]

Indeed, the research into the members of the Page family who migrated to Australia has been truly fascinating, largely thanks to the wonderful friendship and help I encountered from Australian members of RC. Anyone interested can look at the l-o-n-g thread 'Robert HUTTON / Catherine DOWNEY late 19th century' in the main Australia board.
Thanks to all for your continued interest ... and determination to crack the case!
Ian

[kitthappens]

Hi ... was doing a search on shorthand to see if anyone actually employs people with it - and found this.

I taught Dacomb Shorthand for several years in the late 70's and prided myself on being able to read anyone's shorthand.  I was also a trained court reporter but was too young to sit for the exam.

There are definitely elements of Dacomb on this page.  Dacomb was invented in the 1800's, it might be possible that this is a very raw and early form of Dacomb.  The punctuation doesn't seem consistent with Dacomb but I'd say it was a novice who didn't yet learn disjoined prefixes and suffixes - if those strokes actually existed at that time.  When you're a speed writer, the lack of lines and thick strokes (leaded strokes) dont matter, so this should have been easy.

I can only pick out a few words I'm sorry, I need to completely forget about half of the theory and then I may be able to read it.  Thats if it is Dacomb! I can't see any "n"s.!

I was going to ask if it could be about a waterfall or watermark before I even saw reference in other posts here to "Water Hotel" (just found the longhand of that!).  I'm thrown by what looks like the Pitman symbol for "with" being used several times.  The other thing that doesnt make sense is that the writer seems to be using theory taught at the beginning and end of the only standard Dacomb book on theory.

Okay, to the words!

third line: ......... a levee/levy for watermark ...........
fourth line: medium and geographical ........
6th line from bottom: ("covering" in written in longhand?") a path leading ............could be.............
second last line: ...........a few times.........
third last line: ............prefer operatives (or prototypes)
very last word on first page looks like "lukewarm"
the very last few lines on the second page seems to contain the words: ...........wife........themselves...........

an outline which is used a lot here could be a place name? consonants seem to be:  LaPTHR  or LaPGR

Tricky text! Its 6 am here, thats all my brain can process right now!

[kitthappens]

oops! I really didnt read the preceding posts properly, seems like some of my information may be quashed anyway ... only saving grace I've got is that Mrs. Joy, who purchased Dacomb from the Dacomb sisters, once said that the two Dacomb sisters did not like Pitman and went about creating their own shorthand.  So its possible I've just been looking for the first time at Pitman and can see some basic theory that the Dacomb sisters based their shorthand on.  Sorry about that!

[c-side]

Don't worry about it - at least you tried - we seem to have given up on this to the point where I'd forgotten about it 

Welcome to rootschat

Christine

[kitthappens]

Thanks for the welcome Christine

Seems like this has been looked at from all angles already.  I'm still bothered by it tho! lol ...

There are two specific complex outlines/words that occur many times in the text, it appears as though the writer has written them in long shorthand because they were notable names/places that were uncommon to the everyday vocabulary of the time.  I hope that makes sense.  Its something I noticed in years of marking students' work too - the writing of a name/place in long shorthand to make it easier to remember and transcribe.  I can't help feeling that these two words may give some insight to the person requesting assistance with the text.  Ah well - it was good to try to employ a skill that is otherwise redundant these days 

[yelkcub]

Many thanks for this reply - I had almost given up hope of deciphering James Page's shorthand notebook entry. We have a notebook of his dated 1876, containing various notes, accounts, drawings, and what seems like plans for a trip (from South Australia, where he lived, having migrated there in 1850) back to England. The 'Mrs Robinson' mentioned in longhand among the shorthand was probably his daughter. James Page was a shipping merchant with dealings particularly in the trade between Australia and New Caledonia. After leaving the Sorbonne (Paris) he spent some time at a commercial college in Hamburg. Whether he learned his shorthand there, or whether he taught himself at  a later date, is unknown. Your identification of the shorthand system he was using, and your interpretation of some of the words, is potentially a key to unlocking this mystery. Possibly the note concerned only fairly mundane business matters, but you never know.
Thanks again for your expertise and interest
Best wishes

Ian

[SaxonbyChemnitz]

Sehr geehrter Herr Hermsdorf,

das Stenogramm ist in Pitman´scher Stenographie geschrieben.
Jocob Pitmann (Baumeister und Architekt und Bruder von Isaak Pitman) ging 1837 nach Süd-Australien und führte dort die Pitman'sche Stenographie ein.
In Deutschland kenne ich nur einen Herrn, der in der Lage wäre, das zu übertragen. Könnten Sie mir mitteilen, welchen Umfang die Stenogramme haben? Wenn ich den betreffenden Herrn frage, will er immer erst wissen, wieviel Seiten es ungefähr sind.
Ein m.E. leichterer Weg wäre sicher über die englische Steno-Gesellschaft:
Incorporated Phongraphic Society (I.P.S.), Patron: Mrs. Margret Pitman-Miller. Chairman ist:

Mrs Mary Sorene, FIPS (*)

Rosemarie Hänsel
Sächsische Landesbibliothek -
Staats- und Universitätsbibliothek Dresden
Stenographische Sammlung
01054 Dresden
Besucheradresse: Zellescher Weg 18
Telefon: +49-0351 4677-542/541
Telefax: +49-0351 4677-731

Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Ihre SLUB Dresden/ Ref. Informationsservice

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[stenog]

Hi yelkcub

Is this thread still alive? I was intrigued by your shorthand journal pages, and spent yesterday unravelling them. It's not in Pitmans, but an early 19th century system by one Henry Lewis (1815). There are a couple of manuals available online at archive.org. The bizarrest one is  cartoon-like Savoy Opera called Lewis's Cranio-Logical Lecture on Shorthand (http://archive.org/details/lewisscraniologi00lewiiala), but it matches your diarist's system almost perfectly.

I have done the bulk of a transliteration (there are a few idiosyncracies and placenames which I haven't cracked, yet) if you are interested. The last sentence in the entry is just lovely:

The landlady a buxom dame and jolly woman

I'll post the full transcription if anybody out there replies.

Cheers

Sean.