Please help? RANSOM Thomas 1820: MCNALLY Catharine; AMOS T: STIEGLITZ

[Wiggy]

Well that's worth knowing JM!    - thanks for that -
just that when you said birth - I thought you meant birth!      Now I understand!!   I've been sitting here trying to think of all the things I know with the acronym ECR - forgot about early church records - that was the one I'd missed - silly me!

So that 1811 date for John could be wrong too then - that isn't  going to make life any easier!   On the other hand - it could be right.

I can hardly wait to visit the libraries in Tasmania and look at the musters for myself - David has said that Thomas appears with 'wife' in 1819 - but then in 1822 he has looked up the women list - I want to see if she appears as 'wife' again and if the children are listed as 'children'.  It is odd, but I only just realized that the counts were done on different days - so why does Catharine appear as 'wife' on one and then get listed - (or not as is the case) -  differently next muster.   Do you see what I'm getting at?    Not making myself very clear here.

Wiggy

[majm]

I'm understanding what you are getting at... its much clearer than how I was trying to explain about CathArine McCann and that 1805 record I spotted...
I'm quite sure there was too much time spent doing silly admin tasks back in those days, rather than actually being adminstrators...  but umm, has anything really changed, except the tools used to establish and maintain the records of this century 

Cheers, JM...

[davclem]

Wiggy and JM,

The original musters and lists are on microfilm, which I have referred to in order to check the printed record in  the book  "Land Musters, Stock Returns and Lists Van Diemens Land 1803-1822" by Irene Schaffer.

The relevant ones appear to be

Free women on General Muster Hobart Town 1818  which lists maiden name and name of spouse It includes 16 Catherines (see my previous post)

Free Children Off an Off Stores Hobart October 1818 includes no Ransom or McNally children

The Land and Stock Muster VDL 1819 includes Thomas Ransom at Hobart with a household of 3, comprising 1 proprietor, 1 wifeand 1 Government Servant, all on the stores, 400 acres downto pasture, 40 sheepand 300 bushells of grain inhand

GeneralMuster of proprietors of land and stockat Port Dalrymple 11-15 October 1819 includes John Cummings  with 200 acres under pasture, wheat, barley and potatoes, 58 cattle and 250 sheep, himself,a wife and 3 children ,none on stores.. James McNally had 70 acres,12 cattle, 400 sheep, a wife and no children, both of them off stores

Wives of CivilOfficers, Settlers and free people Port Dalrymple 11-15 oct 1819 included Ann Cummings came Free  [entry 64]and (just) McNally[entry 72]. Catherine Kelly and Catherine Lynch are included-noMr Kelly or Mr Lynch appears in theGeneral Muster of Land and Stock above,so they are "floating"

Children of Free people at Port Dalrymple 11-15 October 1819 include  Ellen 10, george(John George) 14 and James 12 Cummings, and Elizabeth and John McNally no ages  and John McNally[ entries 54, 40 and 96 ]

The general Muster of Civil Settlers and  Free men at Port Dalrymple 15-19 October 1819 includes John Cummings Came free, , James McNally  (nothing else) [ entry 127], and John McNally per  Boddingtons tried Antrim August 1792, 7 years.[entry 20]. But the Boddingtons manifest shows James (not John) McNally as the convict

Hobart Town Muster, Women, 1822 includes 23 Catherines ( see previous post), no Ransom and no McNally

David

[davclem]

For Cathy48

Historical Records of Australia  Maquarie to G A Gordon pg 714

14December 1811 Land grant and Live stock for J Cummings

“You are to direct the Acting Deputy Surveyor to locate 200 acres of land in some eligible situation  at Port Dalrymple to Mr John Cummings ( late capt in the 102nd regiment but now permitted by me, on his resignation,to become a settler on this island) in lieu of 200 acres of land some time located to him at the Derwent, but which he now relinquishes and reverts back to the Crown…..’
It goes on to detail arrangements for swopping  two cows and any increase therefrom which “he received some time ago at the Derwent” by the same from the Government herd at Port Dalrymple, plus another 2 cows and 80 ‘Ew sheep” subject to a bond for repayment in 2 years.

David

[Wiggy]

Thanks for all those muster records David.   That makes it very clear about the PD and Hobart records and who was where, when.

 Are there any records in 1822 of the men? and of the children?  E.G. where is Thomas listed in 1822? - or has that record been lost down the years?  I know I'm sounding like a broken record on this - but Catharine/wife was listed WITH Thomas in 1819 - did they change the way of taking the records by 1822?    I don't know, so I'm asking - politely!  Seems the best way to find out!   I bet you've given this answer before and I've forgotten.

Wiggy - (not trying to be obtuse - really)

[Cathy48]

Thanks for that last bit of info David. I have also printed out the report from the Newgate calendar that you directed me to, I found it very interesting and it has inspired me to do some further research. I have been going through old newspapers on line and found several interesting articles about both Cpt and Ann Cummings, also an interesting entry about Capt Cummings and wife Elizabeth? in 1832. I have started corresponding with a distant cousin, descendant from Captain John's eldest son, she has been writing a story about the Cummings' early years in Tas and has a lot of info. She is in the process of writing it up to send to me, if there is anything at all mentioning any of the names you have been looking for, I will post it here.

[davclem]

Thank you, Cathy, I"m glad that Team Catharine has been able to help-as part of the search forCatharine,the Cummings family story has become quite connected,so if I can help any further with any query that comes up, please post it and I will check my files- you are probably aware from this thread that the connection started with the newspaper notice about Ann Cummings (Boynton) absconding. I will post asummary of a number of items from the HRA and newspapers and other sources for your research in a day or two. David

[Wiggy]

Hi Cathy.

I found an IGI entry for Capt John Cummings born 1743 d 1825 Hobart some time ago, and his wife was Elizabeth -(Clark I think) - is that right according to your family history.  But I can't find any 1832 entry for Elizabeth - and John died 1825 so  . . .
Love to know which paper you were looking in?  Do you think that may be a different family - or is it definitely yours?

Wiggy

[Wiggy]

Have also been looking at Col Sec's Papers and found a long list for Cap't John Cummings, and six other and apparently iindividual Johns,  8 apparently individual Williams,  1 James C, and another J.C.. 
I say apparently because, when one person is referred to, all the letters are listed together (as in John Snr) - but I don't know for sure.  4 Johns seem to be in NSW and 2 in VDL;  1 of the James is in VDL the other NSW.  Most of the Williams seem to be in NSW.

This could get to be a tad confusing.   

Wiggy