Please help? RANSOM Thomas 1820: MCNALLY Catharine; AMOS T: STIEGLITZ

[majm]

Just for the Record,

From this thread we know that Catharine McNalty is NOT the lass in VDL with Thomas Ransom, BUT .... just for the record, the Catharine McNalty who arrived 1807 was tried with an Eleanor RUSSELL, on 17 Sept 1806 in London, and they were both transported on the Sidney Cove to NSW. 

Still searching for Thomas' friend, Catharine Christina McNally.

JM

[davclem]

Turn my back for a minute, and I'm miles behind you all!

Does anybody have access to "Iron men in Wooden Ships-the Sydney Sealers 1800-1820" by D R Hainsworth.

Its not in the State Library Tasmania catalogue, and getting an inter library loan from the mainland would take a few days, so if anyone can access it, it might give an origin for Bill Rook.

I know how easy it is to send Wiggy on her novella bit, so I just drop in that Trugannini was known as Lallah Rook- please don't bite , Wiggy, I'm dizzy enough as it is - she's not relevant, no, she is not Catherine's half-sister.

NB the IGI reference did state Cathorine- I thought that a nice concensus solution

Cheers all, we are closing in on an ever expanding search, and , Wiggy, the story is worthy of a novel!

David

[davclem]

JM,

Oh, how I miss that Catherine! the centre of my search for 20 years,but I like the new one better now, I'mjust a fickle male

One angle I noticed in my VDL seraches-given the very small populations at the time in VDL it really is difficult to hide and commit identity theft, particularly with the detalied physical descriptions on their records, 5'3' high,red hair, pockmaked,squint in left eye and lisps is really difficult to disasppear ( made it up Wiggy, thats not Catharine). But an interesting area for future research is the concept of populations within populations. For example, there are a number of 1807"Sydney Cove" convicts in VDL in 1818, there is a population of "CatherineConvicts", and even a population of the original "Calcutta"arrivals in 1803. You notice in the early German migrant ships 1850-1870 that they marry each other for the first generation. Also occupational or religious groupings- they hang together, so clues about the person you are searching for often comes from their extended family, not their blood family.

So the clue to Catherine's origins may well turn up  in a throwaway obscure reference in the history of the sealing community of Sydneyat large.

David

[regross]

Dave,

I agree the various community of arrivals seemed to stick together and each formed slowly expanding spheres to corss to the mainland too.

I have in my paternal line a Princess Royal Girl 1832 who married an ARAB  1822 convict. Much later on and quite by chance I find in my maternal line a descendent of a Princess Royal Girl; in both cases the children had moved to Victoria in the late 1840's.

To add to coincidences an adopted daughter (my fathers aunt as we believed) married into a family descended from a Tasmanian convict and a marines daughter. The children had again come to Victoria in the late 1840's

Then  I discover that her adoptive mother my (my ggrandma) cousins married into the same family [Beech(y) B(V)ickers]. So this unrelated adopted daughter ended up with Tassie convict background in her adoptive and marital familiesand truley connected by her marriage to my line. (don't ask how long this took to sort out!!!!!)

Considering the small population this is not surprising.

By the way I have another convict exile  to Victoria who married a daughter of the Arab/Princess Royal family. So again  like seemed to gravitate to like.

However their descendants have all been fine upstanding people!!!

regards

Robn

[majm]

Hi Everyone,

Yes David, your clusters within communities occur regularly - I suspect even today!  Oh and Robyn has similar thoughts too.

Here's my latest "tuppence worth" - watch the variations in the spelling on these TWO 1810 marriages at Parramatta NSW, each recorded twice, yet NO record found in the Col Secretary's records for either of these brides      (These marriages are indexed online at NSW BDM)
 
At Line 1103 of volume 3A there's Daniel Kelly marrying Catharine Carr
and then
At Line 455 of Volume 147A there's Daniel Kelly marrying Cathrine Car

Sometime later in that same year

At Line 1149 of volume 3A, there's Joseph McKenley marrying Catharine Clemens.
At Line 466 of Volume 147A, there's Joseph McKinley marrying Catherine Clemens.  

NB Vol 3A commenced back in 1788 and seems to include marriages conducted at Norfolk Island (ECR shown as CG on NSW BDM records are recorded in that volume., remembering marriages in those times were according to the rites of the Established Church - C of E)

David, I do not have access to your Hainsworth book, sorry.  

I tend to favour the CLEMENS surname as a possible nee name for Catharine Christina Mcnally.  

Need to obtain more Tim Tams, so catchyalata

Cheers,

JM

[davclem]

Robyn,

You're a mighty Rook hunter! Add the following to your list

Governor Hunter. Schooner Wrecked near Port Stephens, 1816. [LF],[AS1] , 35 tons.  Registered Sydney 18 January 1805. Master William Rook. Stranded in the Furneaux Group, off Badger Island, 1 April 1809. Later refloated.

David

[Wiggy]

Robyn,

Searched through the soldiers

Re John McNally:
Went through 73 Highlanders and 1/46 South Devonshire lists,  but the nearest I got -  on my admittedly not very thorough search - was John McNabb and  someone Mannerly. So no help at all there.    Although I think John McNabb did appear on doth regiments' lists.

Found other useful stuff for family though.

Yes JM - I think the Clemens maiden name for Catharine would be a most fitting result!!     

Wiggy

[davclem]

Looks like John Macnally was a regular crew man on the sealing ships, at least between 1811-1816


In the Governor Macquarie,
George Wade John Brian Ttios. Angelo
Charles Smith T. Middlcwood Valent. O-ton
Thos. Cam bed, John Macnally, Wni. Jones
_Peter Lawrie
6 Aug 1814 S Gazette

S Gazette 4 march 1815
In the Brig Governor Macquarie,
Thos. Campbell Francis Silva
Thos. Middiewood , John Macnally
Valentine Oston William Jones
Janies Allan Thomas Angelo
Peter Laurie Jas. White John Spears.

David

[davclem]

Rook shot?

The 1806 NSW Muster ( per telephone advice from Ref Library, not sighted) gives two entries each for William and Catherine Rook, one spelled with an "e', one without. William is shown as a "sealer' employed by Kable, and Catherine is shown per "Sugar Cane' . There is no Rooke on Sugar Cane, but there is a Catherine ROURKE, tried Dublin August 1792, so obviously not our Catherine , who claims she was born 1789, even Fagin wouldn't use 3 year olds!
 So we have 3 references to a John Macanally on sealing ships 1811, 1815 and 1816, a birth of a John to John Macanally and a Catherine in 1811 , and John Cummings taking John McNally and wife to Port Dalrymple 1in 1816.

David