Please help? RANSOM Thomas 1820: MCNALLY Catharine; AMOS T: STIEGLITZ

[Wiggy]

Hi Robyn,

 I've been trailing back through this thread and looking again and again at all the sites you suggested.  I hadn't realized I could get into other pages from one of them and go through the marines/soldiers on the second and third fleets - and now I have seen them and  - well there are no McNallys - but each page does say that the lists are not complete.  So I reckon we'll have to be content with that for the time being - until someone finds a treasure trove under a bed and puts up all the names somewhere.

We're still looking though - trying to find even the merest hint in the Hobart town Gazette etc.   She is one elusive woman.   Meantime going through all the gazettes is turning up other news of family and proving a window into the times - so not wasted at all.   I started going over the ground covered to find again the reference to John McNally and Port Dalrymple - that set up has come up again so we are trying to exclude it once again.

Cheers

Wiggy

[davclem]

OK, so you have advice ( Killymoon blog 2007) from B W Leo V Stieglitz that the Anne referred to in 1837  by Martin Cash as the adopted daughter at Killymoon  and who married Francis Walter Stieglitz at Avoca in 1840 stated age 22 was ,in fact, adopted, and was the daughter of Thomas Amos and Catherine MvNally. Take a bow, Leo, you are a living treasure! So the tag of adopted was a subterfuge to cover up that Anne was Catherine's natural daughter, whereas no cover up was required for Thomas born 1820 even though the registration was Father U, he was called McNally not Ransom and not acknowledged as Ransom in the will of Thomas Ransom 1829 even though he left him his estate. Very odd.

Thomas Amos died in 1819- advice Wiggy to David, per Hobart Town Gazette, but I can't find wiggy's advice and the exact date of death!

Irene Schaffer Land Musters, Stock Returns and Lists, VDL 1803-1822, shows Thomas Ransom as having a wife on the stores in the 1819 (October?). The same return does not include a Thomas Amos (dead) Neither does the Free Women on General Muster, Hobart Town 1818 (October?) include a Mrs Amos or a Catherine McNally. All Hobart, but no entries for Port Dalrymple either. The list of Free Children Off and On Stores October 1818 includes no Amos Children. Wiggy's (misplaced by me) advice from memory stated 2 boys, sons of Thomas Amos.

So, a relationship 1817-18 between Catherine, aged 28-29 ( if born 1857-68=1789) and Thomas Amos, and inconsistency of acknowledgement of the two offspring ( Anne and Thomas) of Caterine McNally.

If you are suggesting that Catherine McNally arrived with Amos from Sydney(?) 1816ish then we need to be checking Sydney records, and arrivals in VDL for Amos

David

[davclem]

AMOS, Thomas Sterrop. Solicitor
1817 Aug, Oct 4   Present at Committee of Enquiry into conduct on board convict ship "Chapman" (Reel 6020; 9/2639 pp.48, 77, 140, 189, 449)
1817 Sep 18   Letter from William Gore explaining why he had felt entitled to fee for service of summons for court martial (Reel 6046; 4/1738 pp.284-5)
1817 Sep 20   To Gore re demand for payment for summoning witnesses to Court Martial (Reel 6005; 4/3497 pp.68-9)
1818 Aug 6   Re case Murray v Hook, Cripps and the executors of Abbott (Reel 6047; 4/1741 pp.285-6)
1818 Dec 16   Requesting passage to Van Diemen's Land (Reel 6047; 4/1741 p.345). Reply, 17 Dec (Reel 6006; 4/3499 p.210)
1819 Mar 1,3   Petitions to Governor's Court for sequestration order against William Gore (Reel 6020; 2/8130 pp.87-90, 107-12)
1819 Sep 25   Deeds of Edward Gray's farm at Cabramatta to be delivered to (Reel 6020; 2/8130 p.403)

David

[Wiggy]

HTG Sat 4 Dec 1819    Death notices.    Also Sydney Gazette 13 Nov 1819   Same in death notices.  He died in Sydney. 
 (Try email attachments!)

You didn't actually answer the question posed - Did the brig Kangaroo bring the N.I. evacuees to Hobart -  I know they all got off in Sydney to stretch their legs for a month or so - but I was under the impression that they come on to Hobart on another boat -   Just been back to ADB   - it was the Kangaroo - of course!  ( Keep meeting the Kangaroo in HTG - and it seems to spend a lot of the time taking forever on the voyage - obviously the captain was a tourist!)

Why would Thomas's 'wife' need to be 'on the stores'? - have I missed something - wouldn't he be independent of stores by then - I take on the stores to mean they are being provided for by gov't.

Wiggy   

[Wiggy]

Not sure whether I think she (C) arrived with Thomas A from Sydney -  I didn't realize he'd been to Hobart so no, I don't think I was thinking that - but now that you say he was in VDL, it does seem a possibility.
I don't think she was Thomas A's wife - his 'nanny' for his boys was my inventive thought!  They seem to have been motherless judging by the death notice.  He died 9th Nov 1819

Wiggy     doing the quick step!

[davclem]

The undermentioned Persons have ob-
tained Certificates during the last  Week

Winifred McNally Canada,
H.-E. ROBINSON

HTG  13/9/1823

Rules Winifred Out. How about?

MR. CUMMINGS, of Port Dalrymple, gives
Notice of his intention to return to that Set-
tlement by the Brothers, Colonial Vessel ; and of
his intention also to take down with him (under a
yearly engagement) John McNally and Wife. SG 6/1/1816

THat has to be the last shot in the locker

David

[Wiggy]

Very good David - so what do you reckon to that last?

Trish has found the death of Thomas Amos - but no child under name of Amos.   I'll have to go back and check if I asked her to look under McNally - I think I did - in which case no-one of that name in Sydney either.

Have been trawling HTG again - all done for 1817 now - and funnily enough I came up with Thomas Ransom raffling a beautiful child's swing cot!!!!!!!   13 Sep 1817

And Mrs Ransom contributing to the Wesleyan mission Chapel and Charity School!  (bad luck - it was in 1823!)
 

Wiggy

[davclem]

Thomas Amos was a Solicitor of the Supreme Court doing the Civil and Ecclesiastical Circuit- but very handy , he can kill two birds with one stone and  claim mileage, if Catherine had been the au pair in Sydney and he had moved her to Hobart for the delivery .
 
 But we have no date for Anne's birth apart from she stated aam as 22 in 1840 which is only circa 1818, so late 1819 is possible, which makes an affair in February 1819 with a local Hobart woman equally possible, so we are back to a local Mcnally rater than an imported au pair McNally, and as Winifred is out of the frame, we have to check on life of Mrs John McNally of Port Dalrymple.
 
If old Thomas is acknowledging a wife in Muster of October 1819 and a servant and all 3 are on rations,why would he not claim a child if it had been born to the wife.
 
 So, Anne is born earliest 23 Jan 1819 plus 9 months, unless premature,and latest April 1819 plus 9 months. But young Tom was  born November(?) 1820, so assume Anne born October-November ish 1819, too late for Muster but allowing time for conception of Thomas 1820. This would fit with a conception of Anne in February 1819, as a local dalliance.

If Catherine was the nanny/governess/au pair of the Amos household in Sydney and was not pregnant before January 1819 ,there was  no need to move her away from Sydney where she was needed to look after the Amos boys while Father was on circuit in VDL. I vote for local dalliance and not dumped Sydney au pair, particularly given the "suavity" of Mr Amos as reported in his death notice- smooth talker. He probably never knew about the consequences of his dalliance, he died in Sydney about the same time as the birth in Hobart.

How are we doing?

David
 

[Wiggy]

Hmm - let me digest that with my porridge!

What birth in Hobart - it isn't there - have looked - unless - under what name are you proposing?


Wiggy