Author Topic: Please help? RANSOM Thomas 1820: MCNALLY Catharine; AMOS T: STIEGLITZ  (Read 68245 times)

Offline davclem

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Re: Please help? RANSOM Thomas 1821: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #90 on: Friday 17 July 09 08:07 BST (UK) »
Julie,

Read The hermit in Van Diemens Land for a two page description of the courting of Catherine

David
Juler- NWNorfolk , Thomas/Alice ,pre 1800,
Clement-Durham, Eng,pre 1800
Holroyd, Staffordshire, pre 1750
Amelia Wyatt/Cole/Booth,  born Surrey ,abt 1821
John Wentworth who married Sarah Holmes, Carshalton,pre 1785
John Frith married Ann, Yorkshire/pre 1770, Settrington?
Alice Miles married Holkham Norfolk to Juler about 1745
Thomas Sanders , Buckland 1700s
Richard Adams , tailor , Lambeth ,about 1780-1830
Earliest reference to Break O'Day Plains, Eastern Tasmania, before 1820

Offline VDLstories

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Re: Hermit - Please help? RANSOM Thomas 1821: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #91 on: Friday 17 July 09 08:55 BST (UK) »
thanks - will read it

Julie

Offline Wiggy

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Re: Please help? RANSOM Thomas 1821: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #92 on: Friday 17 July 09 09:48 BST (UK) »
 Two pages!   - have I missed something??

Quick back to 'The Hermit'!!

 :D     Wiggy
Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania)
Brown, Johnstone, Eskdale, Brand  (Dumfriesshire,  Scotland)
Booth, Bruerton, Deakin, Wilkes, Kimberley
(Warwicks, Staffords)
Gaunt (Yorks)
Percy, Dunning, Hyne, Grigg, Farley (Devon, UK)
Duncan (Fife, Devon), Hugh, Blee (Cornwall)
Green, Mansfield, (Herts)
Cavenaugh, Ransom (Middlesex)
 

 Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.

Offline davclem

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Re: Please help? RANSOM Thomas 1821: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #93 on: Friday 17 July 09 10:20 BST (UK) »
No 28 December 1829- pages 167-169 See also biog notes on Thomas pg 214 and Frad Stieglitz 215
Juler- NWNorfolk , Thomas/Alice ,pre 1800,
Clement-Durham, Eng,pre 1800
Holroyd, Staffordshire, pre 1750
Amelia Wyatt/Cole/Booth,  born Surrey ,abt 1821
John Wentworth who married Sarah Holmes, Carshalton,pre 1785
John Frith married Ann, Yorkshire/pre 1770, Settrington?
Alice Miles married Holkham Norfolk to Juler about 1745
Thomas Sanders , Buckland 1700s
Richard Adams , tailor , Lambeth ,about 1780-1830
Earliest reference to Break O'Day Plains, Eastern Tasmania, before 1820


Offline Wiggy

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Re: Please help? RANSOM Thomas 1821: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #94 on: Friday 17 July 09 10:44 BST (UK) »
There's something odd about the transcription - or was the affidavit sworn before the Mr Simpson much later - Thomas is said to have died on 6 Feb 1829.  This affidavit is in late August.  I wonder why it took so long to come to 'court'. 
 
Hmmm interesting.   I'll have to think about that - old Thomas playing ghosts maybe!  making sure his Inn was in good hands?   Of absolute rectitude!    ;)

Wiggy
Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania)
Brown, Johnstone, Eskdale, Brand  (Dumfriesshire,  Scotland)
Booth, Bruerton, Deakin, Wilkes, Kimberley
(Warwicks, Staffords)
Gaunt (Yorks)
Percy, Dunning, Hyne, Grigg, Farley (Devon, UK)
Duncan (Fife, Devon), Hugh, Blee (Cornwall)
Green, Mansfield, (Herts)
Cavenaugh, Ransom (Middlesex)
 

 Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.

Offline VDLstories

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Inn incident dates: RANSOM Thomas 1821: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #95 on: Friday 17 July 09 12:09 BST (UK) »
Peter Harrisson of Bath Parish  in the District of Oatlands Inn holder upon his oath saith.

In the month of October 1826 I accompanied Mr Gregson to Ransom’s Inn at Green Ponds, where he and Mr Gage another Magistrate were engaged in hearing a case of sly grog selling. There were very many people at Ransom’s Inn and among them the wife of George Owen who then kept a public house at the foot of Constitution Hill. When the justice business was  over I dined with Mssrs Gregson, Gage, Whitefield, Espie and one or two more. I remained there until nearly midnight.

In the course of the evening I sat sometimes smoking cigars with Mr Gregson, and the rest, in the left hand room, and at other tines with Mrs Ransom and Mrs Owen in the right hand room. I was not continually in the company of either Mr Gregson or Mrs Owen. Between nine and ten o clock I became very impatient to go home, and I stated my wish to Mrs Owen and the others who sat with me in the room .- Mrs Owen offered to bet me 5 shillings that Mr Gregson would not go with me. Before either ten or eleven o clock I forget which I accepted the bet and lost it, for Mr Gregson did not leave Ransom’s until the hour named by Mrs Owen was past. – Mr Gregson was then in the adjoining room. I went to him then and importuned him to go with me. – He said he would go when he had finished the cigar he was then smoking.

He remained there about two hours after he had so promised to go home. When I had lost the Bet I paid Mrs Owen the 5/-. She then offered me another bet of 5/- that Mr Gregson would not go home that night.-  This second bet I won for Mr Gregson left the House with me as I have stated about, or a little before midnight.- We reached Jericho about 2 O clock in the morning, having rode at a very rapid rate.-

Mrs Owen left Ransom’s a little time before Mr Gregson and I mounted our Horses some time afterwards Mrs Ransom told me that on the night in question Mr Gregson had spoken to her in private upon the stairs and expressed his intention to sleep there that night with Mrs Owen, and that she (Mrs Ransom) had indignantly refused to comply with his request. – I told Mrs Ransom that Mr Gregson must have been joking. She replied that she knew quite the contrary for that he was in earnest in making the proposition.

I afterwards heard the same story from different gentlemen who said it had been mentioned to them by Mrs Ransom. – I mentioned these things to Mr Gregson, at my House, in the presence of Dr Hudspeth and I think, Mr Bryant. Mr Gregson laughed heartily.

On or about the 13th April 1828 Mr Gregson passed the afternoon and evening at my House smoking cigars. – About ten o clock at night he drew from his pocket a paper   which he asked me to read and sign. It purported to be a relation of what took place at Ransom’s between him and Mrs Owen. I instantly signed the paper and returned it to Mr Gregson, who soon afterwards left my house

– I never saw the paper before he then produced it to me. Dr Hudspeth was present when  I signed it. In signing the paper I thought I had stated that I saw nothing improper between Mr Gregson and Mrs Owen on the day in question nor that I had cause to suspect anything improper between them.

 I never said, or meant to say, that MrGregson and Mrs Owen had not to my own certain knowledge any private conversation or intercourse together. They had opportunity. They might have been together on the day and night in question while I went twice or three times to Ransom’s stable.

Three or four months ago as near as I can guess Mr Horne of Chiswick and Mr Gregson came to my Inn.  One of them produced the paper which I had signed in April 1828.- Mr Horne asked me if the signature thereto was my hand writing, and if the facts therein  stated were correct. I said that one part of it bore as I thought a double construction and must be allowed namely the part where I was supposed to say, positively that the whole story about Mr Gregson and Mrs Owen was false. I said I did not and could not know it to be false.

Mr Horne then made the alteration I proposed, and I swore to the truth of the contents before W Horne. I came here to made this deposition at the insistence and request of Dr Paton of Norfolk Plains from whom I received on Wednesday last the letter now produced.

Peter Harrisson (signed)
Sworn before me at Anstey Barton  this 29th Day of August 1829
Thos Anstey

+
also
+


The examination of Christian McNally who states
I live at the Royal Oak Public House Green Ponds
I remember Mr Gage and Mr Gregson meeting there about some Magisterial Business.

Mrs Owen who present on the occasion. I never saw Mrs Owen and Mr Gregson alone in any room with his arm around Mrs Owen nor did I ever see him use the slightest freedom with her.
I never turned Mrs Owen out of my house.
Mr Gregson and Mrs Owen never met at my house but on the occasion I speak of.
Mr Gregson and Mrs Owen never had tea together at my house nor any other refreshment whatever.

Christian McNally
Sworn before me this 2nd January 1829
B?  Horn/e  JP (Horne of Chiswick? or Hone?)



Offline Wiggy

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Re: Please help? RANSOM Thomas 1821: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #96 on: Friday 17 July 09 22:42 BST (UK) »
Ah Ha - thanks so much - that explains the date discrepancies!   

I'd like to have joined you on the wall at the Royal Oak!!   More fodder for someone to make a film about this lady!  I'm sure she's worth it!

Wiggy
Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania)
Brown, Johnstone, Eskdale, Brand  (Dumfriesshire,  Scotland)
Booth, Bruerton, Deakin, Wilkes, Kimberley
(Warwicks, Staffords)
Gaunt (Yorks)
Percy, Dunning, Hyne, Grigg, Farley (Devon, UK)
Duncan (Fife, Devon), Hugh, Blee (Cornwall)
Green, Mansfield, (Herts)
Cavenaugh, Ransom (Middlesex)
 

 Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.

Offline davclem

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Re: Please help? RANSOM Thomas 1821: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #97 on: Saturday 18 July 09 06:11 BST (UK) »
"The Cyclopedia of Tasmania" 1900, Pages 389-391
 
'State of Morals in the early Days"- "the marriage contract was not strictly observed. Sales of wives, public and private, were common.One, of some attraction,bought her owner 50 ewes another 5 pounds and a gallon of rum. Of the last named, in 1817, the paper remarks"from the variety of bidders, had there been any more in the market, the sale would have been pretty brisk" It is related that the gentleman who made the sheep bargain did not gain much in his purchase, for his new property plagued him somuch as to deive himintothe madhouse". Marriages were not very frequent in those days. In 1817 the Chaplain united a coupleof whom it is written" their united ages being 137 years who can possibly account for the all pevading charm of love" While no impediment existed to the formation of unhallowed associations, marriages could not be sanctioned witout a government stamped order.Some of the early advertisements offer an insight into the state of society"'December 1818 NOTICE
Whereas my wife Jane---- has again walked away with herself without any provocation, and I hear has taken up with a fellow who looked after cattle in the neighbourhood of the Macquarie River , this is to give notice that I will not pay for bite nor sup or any other thing she mqay contract on my account to man or mortal" Pages 389-391
 
Also, on pages 391-393 is an account "The first Schools in Van Diemen's Land", which may be relevant to those with ancestors with offspring in Hobart  1816-1825
 

Juler- NWNorfolk , Thomas/Alice ,pre 1800,
Clement-Durham, Eng,pre 1800
Holroyd, Staffordshire, pre 1750
Amelia Wyatt/Cole/Booth,  born Surrey ,abt 1821
John Wentworth who married Sarah Holmes, Carshalton,pre 1785
John Frith married Ann, Yorkshire/pre 1770, Settrington?
Alice Miles married Holkham Norfolk to Juler about 1745
Thomas Sanders , Buckland 1700s
Richard Adams , tailor , Lambeth ,about 1780-1830
Earliest reference to Break O'Day Plains, Eastern Tasmania, before 1820

Offline Wiggy

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Re: Please help? RANSOM Thomas 1821: MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #98 on: Saturday 18 July 09 06:52 BST (UK) »
Would you say now that this proves a point?      I think I rest my case for owning Thomas as GGG-grandfather!
Don't mind how he came by her as long as she is his!   

Wiggy
Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania)
Brown, Johnstone, Eskdale, Brand  (Dumfriesshire,  Scotland)
Booth, Bruerton, Deakin, Wilkes, Kimberley
(Warwicks, Staffords)
Gaunt (Yorks)
Percy, Dunning, Hyne, Grigg, Farley (Devon, UK)
Duncan (Fife, Devon), Hugh, Blee (Cornwall)
Green, Mansfield, (Herts)
Cavenaugh, Ransom (Middlesex)
 

 Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.