Please help? RANSOM Thomas 1820: MCNALLY Catharine; AMOS T: STIEGLITZ

[davclem]

Certainly Capt Cummings age is a bit of a worry, based on an age of 82 at death in 1825, But- we have a Mrs Ann Cummings- Ann Boyton married John Cummings 27/10/1805 at Alvestoke Hampshire. Capt Cummings was back in England then, on Isle of Wight (Hampshire) in 1807 in  command of a detachment of NSW Corps, a right little pillock according to Colonel Leslie. In 1819 at Port Dalrymple they had George 14, james 12, Ellen 10, which is consistent with a marriage in 1805. I cannot locate the source off hand , but one of the boys had two names, and one of them was really John, I think it was George, probably used George in family to differentiate from father John. In 1825 , son John would be 19 and so could be selling beef after the Captain died. Ann ( Boyton) Cummings was his mother. I haven't checked whether John Jnr married an Ann
David

[Wiggy]

Also, it probably doesn't matter how many John Cummings there are - it is John McNally we are worried about is it not?   Took my eye off the ball for a moment there.   (It came to me in the night!      )

Wiggy

[regross]

Wiggy,

Yep, easy to get off the track in this. But Dave has put forward a good explanation for the "adopted" child Catharine is supposed have had. It is quite rational and certainly fits all the known facts. Now to find out what John McNally had done to earn such a harsh opinion of his  actions on Catharine who was held in high esteem. AND hopefully his death.

Robyn

[Wiggy]

Just going over the ground again - and again and -

"NOTICE-Whereas Anne Cummings, my wife,having absented herself from me for some years past,

has just jumped up and hit me - that means that Ann could have met Thomas Amos in Sydney before they came to VDL and become pregnant to him then - after which she withdrew her favours from John - she may have come to VDL but not had anything to do with John.  He does speak of her having  absented herself for years you notice.    And his reason for leaving it so long to go chasing - he's just heard that Thomas Ransom has adopted the issue of Ann and Thomas Amos' liaison.     That would be good for my belief that Anne was born in 1817!!   
 I've always wondered why John would leave it years before making a palaver of Ann leaving!   Do you reckon this might be  any good?

Just a thought - comments?

Wiggy

[davclem]

Because of various committments, I haven't been able to get to the Ref Library- so I haven't ben able to check the 1821 and 1822 Port Dalrymple Musters, for John mcNally or the Cummings household.  But  the following has turned up online in  the Archives Office "Departures" index

'John MacNally, seaman, 28 January 1818, from Hobart,per" Governor Macquarie", to Port Dalrymple and Port Jackson"

OK-  is this our man? and what are the circumstances? and was he just going to Port Dalrymple or right through ( leaving) to Port Jackson? Last first- if he is our man , then he was in the October 1819 PD Muster so he wasn't leaving the island in 1818. Is he our man- our suspect  seems to have crewed on a number of sealing ships before being employed by Cummings in 1816, so " seaman" is good, the name is right, and the date is OK. The circumstances? Anne Cummings has left the nasty Captain Cummings, and in 1819 he is still advertising for her and saying she's been gone some years, well, lets say a couple, and we have surmised that Catherine McNally her servant went with her- so was husband John McNally looking for her, did he find her, told to get lost, or  didn't find her, but in any event is returning to work and the children at Port Dalrymple ?

And.... if he had found her, did he try for a reconciliation again,say in 1820(by which time Anne Cummings had returned to Captain Cummings, but Catherine was still in the household of Thomas Ransom) ,and the result of the attemped  but unsuccessful reconciliation was Thomas McNally1820, which might indicate an error of judgement by Catherine , but at least he was her legal husband and it eliminates the taint of promiscuity from Wiggy's Great.


Different thought-  to release Catherine to remarry again in 1830 , John Mcnally has to die /disappear between 1825-1830, so is the death in 1825 of the by now completely gaga Captain Cummings a significant factor? If McNally  was still part of the Cummings household, did he then have to move on?

As a footnote, forget all about Catharine Rook , even if she wasn't massacred in 1809, because she was Catherine Rourke per "Sugar Cane" 1793,  and was born c 1772, making her a touch old to be  our Catherine  producing young Thomas in 1820.

David  ( but call me Obadiah, or was it Ishmael?) Moby Dick..Whales,seals... its all too much !
 

[davclem]

HTGazette 24 Jan 1818 "The brig Governor Macquarie arrived from Port Jackson 19th January after a 10 day passage...will sail for Port Dalrymple on 27th January...the Commander cautions the Public against giving credit to any of the officers or crew of the vessel''

HTGazette Saturday 24 Jan 1818 " The Ship Chapman , Captain Drake, sailed again on Sunday last. It is reported that she anchored in Storm Bay Passage with a view to clandestinely receiving on board a young woman who was formerly secreted on her and taken out on her arrival here, but the vigilance of the police prevented the intention"

To the Woods!      HTG 28 February 1818 " My wife, Jane Martin, having withdrawn herself from her home without any just provocation and having absconded into the woods with Benjamin Gibbs, an absentee, I hereby caution all...de blah, de blah, blah , blah etc. Joseph Martin, Constabule.  Benjamin was the provocation, I would have thought.

These rivetting random snippets seem to indicate that absconding was a commonn marital pastime in early VDL society, and of no great consequence. I do note however, that there appear to be no advertisements by abandoned wives wanting their husbands back.

David
 

[Cathy48]

Hi, I have only just joined this site so this is all new to me and I'm not sure exactly how this works... but I am a descendant of Capt John Cummings (Jnr) and Ann Boyton. I know Captain John Cummings father died in 1825 in Tasmania. I have a lot of information about this family and their descendants and was intrigued by the posts that had included their names. Maybe we can swap information?

[Wiggy]

Hello Cathy,

Welcome to Rootschat!   Very helpful people you'll find here I'm sure - I certainly have.

John Cummings and the family came up incidentally in our efforts to find Catherine McNally - we have found reference to John Cummings and family taking John McNally and 'wife' to Van Diemans Land in 1816.  I'm so glad you have cleared up the fact that he was son of John Cummings who died in Hobart in 1825 - we've suspected as much, but there seemed to be several of them around it was hard to pinpoint them. 

We don't know the McNally wife's name but, by process of elimination, think it may have been Catharine.  She is our real target on this thread - if you have any information which can help us in that direction it would be very helpful! 

I am not descended from the Cummings but from Catharine McNally.   

Wiggy

[Cathy48]

Captain John Cummings and Anne Boyton were heading to Australia in 1808 and were in Hobart in 1810 so they aren't the Cummings associated with your ancestor. His father Captain John senior died in Hobart in 1825 and his son John Jnr (George)was born in 1805 and moved to Victoria in 1838, where he married Ann King. Ann Cummings (Nee Boyton) drowned in the South Esk River in 1820.