Please help? RANSOM Thomas 1820: MCNALLY Catharine; AMOS T: STIEGLITZ

[regross]

Wiggy

 another reference to James McNally in astralian records.

http://colsec.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/colsec/h/F24c_har-haz-12.htm

However Henry Kendall the Australian Poet has a McNally link see
http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/kendallh/poeticalworks.html and
http://gutenberg.net.au/dictbiog/0-dict-biogI-K.html

Then see this re Leonard McNally (Do a google search for him and it is very interesting.)
http://www.upperswale.co.uk/room5.html
http://gutenberg.net.au/dictbiog/0-dict-biogI-K.html and
http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/andrew/1798.html



http://www.ianson-international.org.uk/england/lass.htm
http://www.ianson-international.org.uk/england/ma-ia01h.htm
Can't see a connection their children were Frances, Elizabeth and William. The girls are certainly not Catherine as ther marriages are noted further in, although their deaths are not known!!!

ELIZABETH MCNALLY was born Aft. 1789 died Unknown and married unknown to THOMAS SIMPSON.
ELIZABETH MCNALLY and THOMAS SIMPSON  had one child:  R. H.SIMPSON, b. Unknown; d. Unknown.
Still a mystery woman is Elizabeth,

 Frances McNally bef 1802 married  John Hampton Lewis in 1833 and died in Anglesea Uk so is definitely out.

regards

Robyn

[majm]

Bit More,

If Catherine Kearney and Catharine Christina McNALLY were/iwas the one person, then perhaps its important to remember that Catherine Kearney arrived in VDL 1808 ex Norfolk Island (per Lady Nelson), perhaps she met Thomas RANSOM back before 1808 ie on NI.

JM

[Wiggy]

Hi all,

Ummmm . . . .   Been looking at all the references you've variouusly given and ummmm . . what to make of it all I do not know!  Her meeting TR on NI would make David happy I think! 
Far from solved though?   Not sure there is anything I can add at the moment, but will keep watching and looking!

Cheers,                    Wiggy

 

[davclem]

I think that the answer to the identity of Catherine lies in the connections to Capt Cummings- We have to accept that her name was Catharine. There is no indication that Mcnally was her maiden name and ,if it was ,where is any reference to her as Catharine McNally  in Hobart before birth of Thomas Jnr in 1820. So it was her married name. Accept that she was born 1789 , that we have reference to a John McNally and a Catherine having a child John in 1810 in Sydney and that Capt Cummings employed John McNally and his wife in 1816 to go to Port Dalrymple in 1816, and that they are all in the PD Muster in 1819, but that Cummings had advertised that his wife Ann had shot through, then it is a reasonable probability that her servant Catherine McNally went with her to Hobart. There she was frail with Thomas Amos, had Ann, later Ann Ransom aam 22 in 1840. named after her mistress and friend Ann Cummings. Ann Cummings returned to her husband, but Catherine was not going back to husband John McNally,andstayed in Hobart under the protection of Thomas Ransom, who was the "wife" he shewed on the 1819 Muster. Ann born after October 1819, so not shown as child on Muster.

I dont see a NI origin for Catharine- given she was born c 1789,and all Catherines on Norfolk appear accounted for. We need to determine where the Mcnally name came from before we can search for her maiden name. So, born 1789, married 16+  and John born 1810 = married 1805-1810. If John /James McNally was either Boddington or Marquis Cornwallis, he was , born, say 1773,and if he was the impediment to marriage with Thomas before 1829, then he died 1825-1829 aged 50+. He either died in VDL or he left after 1819 Muster and shuffled off the mortal coil elsewhere.

Comments please . David

[Wiggy]

Ref. to NI was harking back to bad old days!  JOKE   

Makes sense - I think - will have to let it stew more.

I also think the answer lies in connection with Cummings - it is the most reasonable solution - not in itself concrete evidence, but we have to start somewhere.   
Big sticking point for me is Anne's age.   She said she was 22 when she married in 1840.  Women have a thing about their age - believe me!   ( On the other hand - and arguing against myself here - maybe she wanted to seem more worldly wise and closer in age to Francis than she really was - already 6 years if 1817 is correct.)   Could she have still been in PD at 1819 muster time? - doesn't seem likely does it? -  Just thinking aloud.

Trouble is, if Anne was correct about her age, where does that leave us?

Given that she isn't recorded  in Hobart - but I've just remembered - when I did the search in Hobart, I searched under Ransom and McNally - not Amos - Hmmm - I wonder??

Gosh, I might have to give way here!

Wiggy

[regross]

David,

I think you summed it up nicely. The thing now is to find the McNally death!!! If not in Australia then where? He probably couldn't go back to the UK. Did he join the military and go off adventuring in England's foreign wars? MAnyex convicts did just that.

There was a Robert Mc Nalley in the 40th regiment
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~garter1/m40th.htm
and a James McNally in the 80th regiment
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~garter1/m80th.htm

Also the McNally/Kendall mix has brought more McNally references to light
http://melindakendall.wordpress.com/category/convicts/ focus on Patrick McNally but scroll to the bottom and some one has posted details from the Colonial Secretay's index:
1822 Aug 2
MCNALLY Appointed overseer of the party to clear land for John Harris of South Creek (Reel 6009; 4/3505 p.208
1822 Aug 24
MCNALLY. Soldier tried for desertion at Montreal With assistants, fenced Revd H Fulton’s Glebe (Reel 6055; 4/1761 p.131)
1824 Apr 26
MCNALLY, Mrs Re order for payment of money (Reel 6060; 4/1777 p.141)
1818 Sep 10
MCNALLY, Julia. Came free; of Castlereagh ? On list of persons to receive grants of land in 1818 (Fiche 3266; 9/2652 p.50)
1820 Sep 18 On list of persons for whom grants of land have been handed over to the Surveyor General for delivery (Fiche 3266; 9/2652 p.59)

seems to have been more McNally's around than in the BDM's!!

regards

Robyn

[Wiggy]

Those are interesting sites Robyn.

 There sure are plenty of McNallys around when one starts looking!

Wiggy

[davclem]

 

Team Catherine- the theory
"NOTICE-Whereas Anne Cummings, my wife,having absented herself from me for some years past, without any cause or provocation,although often requested to return to her home: and as I have been credibly informed she means to leave this colony, I hereby caution all Masters and Commanders of vessels, and all otheres whomsoever, from taking her away from the colony, or assissting her in any manner in the same, as I am determined to prosecute with the utmost rigour of the law all such person or persons who in any way may harbour, conceal or maintain her: all persons are therefore likewise cautioned  not to give her any credit on my account, as I will not pay any debts of her contracting "LAUNCESTON JOHN CUMMINGS HTG Saturday 29th May 1819- And, HTG Oct 2 1819,  The sloop "Martha" About to sail for Port Dalrymple in the course of a few days, all claims against John Cummings are requested to be immediately presented for Payment
I have been  editing the RootsChat posts .  And what leapt out as the likely  scenario was(1) that Anne Ransom (married 1840 aam 22) could be the daughter of Anne Cummings(nee Boyton) and Thomas Amos, (2) she was left at Hobart with Catherine McNally ( the  servant who had fled with her) when Anne returned to Capt Cummings in Port Dalrymple, as(3) Catherine was now in the household Of Thomas Ransom. So Anne was” adopted” by Catherine and Thomas . This also solves the short time frame between the presumed birthdate of Anne (1819) and the recorded  birth of young Thomas in  late 1820. This fits withJohn , son of John and Catherine McNally , born 1811,Capt Cummings employs John McNally and wife to go to Port Dalrymple 1816, and 1819 Port Dalrymple Muster, John McNally, and child John McNally, and an “empty” entry for McNally in womens muster ( just the name McNally, no detail)
If John McNally is per Boddingtons or per Marquis Cornwallis, then both are Irish, probably Defenders, and transported 1792-3, assume 20 in 1792 , so born 1772, so 53 in 1825 and 58 in 1820- ready to fall off perch and release Catherine to marry.  David
Comment from Team Catharine?

[Wiggy]

Comment from this member of team,

There are too many John Cummings in play!   Get rid of some - or explain them away!       

Been trawling - the John Cummings from Port Dalrymple is still selling meat to the Gov't long after Cap't Cummings is dead!  Cap't John dies aged 82 in 1825.   Mr John is still around - maybe he is the Captain's son, and Anne Cummings is his wife - in which case the rest may stand - maybe.   Makes more sense anyway - I think!      

Wiggy