Please help? RANSOM Thomas 1820: MCNALLY Catharine; AMOS T: STIEGLITZ

[majm]

Hi All,

Thanks Robyn, I had wondered about some of the post 1908 births on NSW BDM online.  Yes, I too use wildcards when I search their ummm records,  have you ever noticed that they sometimes have the numerical 0 instead of the letter O in their surnames? 

Team Catharine Yes, that seems to be US LOT, well we seem to be involved in the board game CHESS, as we are now considering ROOK - - is it by rook or by crook  as in Miss (ing) C.  Rook. 

I will try to find some spare time Monday afternoon for a decent hunt around on Rook.  Between you and me and the gatepost, well, Miss C Rook could be in the frame, with that Wigton connection, and I don't think William was too old.  One of my lot was at the Battle of Trafalgar, a Master Mariner, born 1745, Trafalgar was - 1805.  He was on the Temeraire.

JM

[Wiggy]

I expect you are right JM - but Robyn had a date for him sailing round ridding the southern ocean of seals in 1825 - making him about 74!!   So he'd be around 49/50 in 1811 - certainly old enough to be Catharine's father rather than her brother.   Think I will have to draw myself up a tree to sort all this out!   Put it on paper and look hard at it!!

Trying to get my head around David's suggestion for the Thorney, Nottingham family - Which of the two is more likely??   - anyway there wasn't a Catharine connected with the Wigton person was there???       I bet you just threw that in for good measure David!   Have a heart man - I'm wading through quicksand here!

Ah well, if Thomas R can sire a son at 75, I can hardly object to Captains being on the job at 74 can I?     

Wiggy

[davclem]

Wiggy, forget Wigton! Read my PS- the facts are true, construct was only wisful thinking, the play on words. Even the fact that Catherine Rook was a crew member of "Perserverance" along with Jonquir de Santos , Mahomet Cassim, James Bloodworth, et al  may be a pure coincidence of name, particularly as the Macanally concerned was James not John. It was John on Rosetta in 1815, also sealing and stuff.

Catherine and William Rook do seem to be highly relevant and must be pursued to see if she is our heroine, but my quick foray into the IGI was just that, a quick search for a quick solution, and I should not have jumped back a generation from the 2 Catherine Rooks circa 1789 at Thornby and Birmingham that came up.  Wigton should be put on back burner as a nice piece of serendipity if it happens. Sorry to have confused the trail

David

[Wiggy]

Yes - well thought as much!!    You don't take me in so easily!

Wiggy   -    laughing

[majm]

Ummm,

Well I thought I was the one with the imaginitis     

But I will stay onboard, and hope that we do figure out the puzzle.

JM

[Wiggy]

This is just me doing a recap. of the situation - mostly to see if I have everything straight!



We have  James (or John!!!) on the Perseverance at the same time as a Catharine Rook (possibly born in Thorney Nottingham) - who may or may not be sister to the Cap't William Rook.  1811.    Was John a free man, and where did he come from?

We have a birth in Sydney registered in 1811 for John and Catharine Macanally - son John.

We have John Macanally going off and on boats seeking seals during 1815-16 - or thereabouts.

We have Cap't William Rook dying of frostbite near NZ in 1825 and then coming alive again somewhere in 1826 - (haven't seen that reference yet!)   Or were there two Cap'ts William Rook?     I think someone mentioned him being a convict didn't they?  If he was born 1785 that would make him about 40  - which is pretty reasonable I reckon.    Tried in 1788 - per Mathilda - same person as the Cap't??

Question:
Did marriages on ships get recorded?  Could John and Catharine been married by Catharine's brother/father?  If not, the baby in Sydney could have taken father's name anyway, and they may have lived as man and wife, much as Thomas and Catharine did.     

OK???   so throw them all in together with three eggs and 2 cups of flour, bake 30 minutes, and what do we get?

1. Mr and Mrs Macanally and son John coming to VDL in 1816 but we can't see how - swimming??? - we need Catharine in VDl by about 1817.
Is the father John Mc the same as the one on the sealing ship? - if so how did Catharine get to VDL and when??   

or 2.  is he James working for the Cummings? - in which case that is how Catharine got to VDL - with husband.  That is almost the easiest to swallow.     


 . . . .And another critical search only slightly off topic - please can someone find the name of the ship on which Thomas Amos arrived in Australia in about 1816 - and did it call in at Port Dalrymple on the way to PJ??   I am hanging on the answer to this one!!   I need it for my novella!   

DO WE THINK that Catharine was in VDL by 1817?     If she wasn't, where is Anne's birth registered - if at all?   I'm going off looking for this again now!

This is all thinking aloud - so if I am off the mark, don't think anything of it!!

Cheers all,

Wiggy

[majm]

Grab a Tim Tam, here's some novella material:

Captain Raine of the SURRY took Thomas AMOS to Hobart Town in April 1819.

Its mentioned in the Sydney Gazette.

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

Bit More on Thomas AMOS

Thomas S Amos, late Solicitor in the Courts of Civil Judicature died Tuesday 9 November 1819 at his residence in Pitt Street Sydney after a short illness (as per Sydney Gazette Sat 13 Nov 1819).  The article notes that he had been in the Colony between three and four years......  He left youthful sons who were attending grammar school in Sydney........ 

http://ndpbeta.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2179080?searchTerm=%22Thomas+S+amos%22

Earlier visit to VDL by Amos (earlier than the Surry in April 1819)  the ship, Derwent, departed PJ 10 Jan 1819 - reported in Sydney Gazette Saturday 23 January 1819

Need to get more Tim Tams, bye for now

Cheers, 

JM

[Wiggy]

Sorry JM,  Not good enough!!!       I want him taking a short stop-over in PD on the way to PJ in 1816 - coming from England!!    Nothing less will do - will have to make it up if the evidence can't be produced!

David wants Anne born to T.S. Amos and Catharine as a result of this visit in 1819 - I reckon Catharine needs a break between offspring of at least two years - so earlier please - I'll save the Tim Tam for later -   a descendant of Anne (maybe) says there is family history that Anne was daughter of Thomas Amos and Catharine McNally (and subsequently adopted by Thomas Ransom)  - the only togetherness of the two seems to be in 1819 - I need there to be a meeting in about 1816/17.  Our history says she was born 17/18.  She says 22 when married in 1840.
  
The alternative path is for John, Catharine and family to move to VDL in 1816 -( as one McNally family did with the Cummings - but which one??)   and Thomas having 'got frail with' Catharine in Sydney before the McNallys moved (don't you just love that expression?         )    
- ahhhh now there's a point - do you think John wanted to take Catharine out of Thomas's way?     Imaginitis flaring! . . . . . . . .  Have I investigated this thought before? - probably is the answer to that one!

Wiggy        

Re last post - it would have had to be the Jan mission if any - April is just about too late!!