Marshall marriage in Broxburn

[mcvicars]

I am visiting Scotland next month, tracing my family tree. My grandmother, Annie Marshall was born 1906 in Broxburn; (sisters Isabella and Tilda, plus a stepbrother and sister from her mother's first marraige) Her birth record on Scotlands People lists her parents as Daniel and Mary Marshall married 23 Nov 1901. However, the marriage records only reveal a marriage of Daniel and Mary (Dickson (widowed), nee Mcvicars) Marshall on 9 Nov 1900. Depending on which record is correct, that seems to influence being able to trace back further as birth records for Daniel Marshall do not match the names of his parents listed on the marriage of 1900 making me wonder how to get the correct tree-line?

[ev]

hi

welcome to rootschat 

without knowing all the details one suggestion i could make is to try and find
them on the 1901 census
if you are sure about the step children from the first marriage then their
mother will be married on the 1901 census if the marriage was 9th nov 1900
or not married if it was 23 nov 1901
does annie marshall's birth cert. give a maiden name for mother mary ?

if you can give us the names of the step children then i'm sure someone will
find them on the 1901 census

ev

[mcvicars]

Thankyou ev, that was a good idea, solved part of puzzle but not the whole. On the census it lists Daniel as born in Ireland so that explains why I couldn't track his birth record on the Scotland site.
Via an aunt and the 1901 census, I confirmed the stepchildren were Elzie, Henry and Richard Dickson(or Dixon); I then managed to find marriage record for Mary Mcvicars to Richard Dickson in 1891. On this record Mary's parents are listed as Henry and Margaret McVicar (McVicker).
On Annie Marshall's birth certificate, it list her mother's name as previously Dickson, and McVicar - which matches with above, and has her parents marriage as 28 Nov 1901. I cannot locate any 1901 marriage although as stated i can find a 9 Nov 1900 marriage of Daniel to Mary Dickson (widowed) on which it states Mary's parents as Richard McVicar and Mary McVicar.
Its frustrating as both marriage certificates seem to be the same Mary ( ie the Dickson - McVicar match) but each list different parental names?? Any further tips greatly appreciated. I also hope to be able to locate Mary Marshall's burial place when I am over there, I heard she was not in Broxburn but had been in an aged home when she died in nearby place?

[ev]

seems like you have the right people
a richard dickson died 1898 uphall west lothian age 26(born 1872)
i believe uphall is the district for broxburn

were richard dickson's parents richard dickson and margaret jones ?
richard/henry/mary/margaret - possible mix up 

where and when was mary mcvicars born ?
were her parents deceased upon marriage to richard dickson ?
did her mother have a maiden name ?

ev

[MonicaL]

Hi Mcvicars and Ev 

From what you have all found, Mary's 1901 census entry also shows her as being born in Ireland. In 1901 she shows as born in 1869. There is this possible birth entry for her on IGI at www.familysearch.org with the names showing on her marriage cert to Richard Dickson:

MARY MC VICKER  Birth on 15 OCT 1868, Antrim, Ireland
Parents:HENRY MC VICKER and MARGARET DAVIS

Another entry for perhaps a sibling, ELIZABETH MCVICKER on 19 NOV 1866 0160, Castlequarter, Antrim - mother Margaret in this case showing as Dawson.

I was going to suggest checking her death cert to see what it said regarding her parents' names however her death seems to show under Marshall/Dickson (not Mcvicars) so not sure if this will help much on verifying her parents' names. Her death was in 1952, aged 83 (b. 1869).

Monica

[mcvicars]

Thankyou so much Monica and ev, what a wealth of information you both are! Monica, as you have noted Marys death in 1952, is there information on her grave site? Was it in the West Lothian area, I would love to visit it when Im over there next month.
I think all evidence points to Henry and Margaret as her parents, but any clues as to why I can find her first marriage records to Richard but can't find her 2nd marriage record to Daniel Marshall?

[mcvicars]

If I may bother you with another question, why can I find Mary McVickers birth record but not Daniel Marshalls? His 1901 census record also stated he was Irish.

[MonicaL]

Hi McVicars

The death entry for a Mary Marshall/Dickson shows in Linlithgow, West Lothian 1952. I haven't viewed the original image just used the search options on Scotlands People. Not sure if the certificate will show where she was buried, you may have to make other inquiries to establish which cemetery.

I found Mary's birth details on IGI. I am not sure how complete Irish records are for Ireland. Certainly official registration began there from 1864. You might want to have a look at this new site from family search: http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch which has recently been launched and covers BMDs for Ireland.

You might want to post on the General Ireland board here on RC for some help in locating Daniel's birth.

Monica

[mr-aitch]

Hi, All - I'm hoping I can offer some information which might help clear up various questions and point to sources for further research in Ireland.  I'm taking an interest for two reasons - first, I live in West Lothian and am always happy to assist, when I can, those doing West Lothian research, and, second, I have an oblique interest in the Annie Morrow, nee Marshall, who was a witness at Richard Dickson and Mary McVicar's marriage.  Here's what I have - hope it doesn't get too long.

Tried to send but "message too long exceeds 5000 characters".  So this is page 1 ...

Birth of Mary McVICKER
15Oct1868, Antrim
Henry McVICKER=Margaret DAVIS
This has a batch no. C011867 which I haven't been able to identify and the mother's name is incorrect according to Mary's two marriage certs. and death cert. which clearly state DAVIDSON.  However, if the IGI entry comes from the published BMD indexes which were filmed by the LDS then I can understand why the name could be wrong because many of the indexes are very difficult to read and many are unreadable.

1st Marriage of Mary McVICAR - 'X' her mark (Uphall 1891 Dist. no. 672 entry no. 3)
Date: 31Dec1890 at 83 Haligate
Form: Church of Scotland
Age & status: 21yrs. - spinster of Broxburn
Occup: domestic servant
Father: Henry McVICAR, labourer, deceased
Mother: Margaret McVICAR, m.s. DAVIDSON, still alive
Spouse: Richard DICKSON - 'X' his mark
Age & Status: 20 yrs. - bachelor of Broxburn
Occup: miner
Father: Thomas DICKSON, labourer, still alive
Mother: Margaret DICKSON, m.s. McVICAR, still alive
Minister: Wm. Johnston, Uphall Parish
Witnesses: Samuel CHAMBERS; Annie MORROW

1891 census
Uphall Dist. no. 672 book 4 page 10
62 Haligate
Rich. DICKSON, head, mar, 20, shale miner, b. Ireland
Mary DICKSON, wife, mar, 21, b. Ireland

Children
Thomas, b. 8Dec1891 at 62 Haligate (Uphall 672 - 384); d. 7Apr1897 at 4 Haligate (Uphall 672 - 51)
Elizabeth, b. 25Apr1894 at 83 Haligate (Uphall 672 - 127)
Henry, b. 28Jul1896 at 3 Haligate (Uphall 672 - 272)
Richard, b. 27feb1899 at 49 Haligate (Uphall 672 - 87)

Death of Richard DICKSON (Uphall 1891 Dist. no. 672 entry no. 77)
Date & Place: 26Jun1898 - 49 Haligate
Age: 26yrs
Occup: miner
Status: married
Spouse: Mary McVICAR
Father: Thomas DICKSON, labourer, still alive
Mother: Margaret DICKSON, m.s. McVICAR, still alive
Informant: Robert McNEILL, brother-in-law, Roman Camps

I suspect Mary and Richard were cousins.  Why?  Here's a family in the townland of Moneyduff, Dunaghy, Ballymoney Parish Antrim, in the 1851 census:

Z14 MONEYDUFF TOWNLAND
WILLIAM MCVICARS /HEAD/M/40//LABOURER/ANT/
MARY MCVICARS /WIFE/M//38/NONE/ANT/
JAMES MCVICARS /SON/U/18//LINEN WEAVER/ANT/
ROBERT MCVICARS /SON/U/15//LINEN WEAVER/ANT/
HENRY MCVICARS /SON/U/12//LINEN WEAVER/ANT/
ADAM MCVICARS /SON/U/9//WINDING SPOOLS/ANT/
MARGARET MCVICARS /DAUGHTER/U//5/NONE/ANT/
MARY MCVICARS /DAUGHTER/U//2/NONE/ANT/
MARGARET HENRY /SERVANT/U//11/WINDING SPOOLS/ANT/

The importance of Dunaghy I'll come back to.

2nd Marriage of Mary McVICAR - 'X' her mark (Uphall 1900 Dist. no. 672 entry no. 50
Date: 9Nov1900 at Broxburn
Form: Free Church of Scotland
Age & status: 32yrs. - widowed of Broxburn
Occup: n/r
Father: Richard McVICAR, farm servant, deceased
Mother: Mary McVICAR, m.s. DAVIDSON, still alive
Spouse: Daniel MARSHALL
Age & Status: 32yrs. - bachelor of Broxburn
Occup: boiler fireman
Father: George MARSHALL, miner, deceased
Mother: Isabella MARSHALL, m.s. McKILLOP, deceased
Minister: Robert Erskine, Broxburn U.F. (First) Church
Witnesses: John MURDOCH; Maria McKELVIE
(The forenames for Mary's parents are obviously incorrect.)

1901 census
Uphall Dist. no. 672 book 4 page 6
49 Haligate
Daniel MARSHALL, head, mar, 33, steam boiler (fireman), b. Ireland
Mary MARSHALL, wife - twice marr, twice mar, 32, b. Ireland
Eliza DIXON, daur, 7, scholar?, b. Uphall WLN
Henry DIXON, son, 5, scholar?, b. Uphall WLN
Richard DIXON, son, 2, b. Uphall WLN
(These 3 are bracketed together with the not "by 1st husband")
Patrick NEIL, lodger deleted and "boarder" substituted, single, 19, shale miner, b. Ireland
(Remember Patrick NEIL for later)
(It was a requirement of the 1901 census that a place of birth furth of Scotland should include both the county and country of birth.  This enumerator was rather lax - more's the pity.  But there's more than one way to skin a cat ;-)

Children
Maggie, b. 8Jul1901 at 49 Haligate (uphall 672 - 274); d. 24Jul1901 at 49 Haligate  (Uphall 672 - 118)
Isabella, b. 4May1903 at 49 Haligate (Uphall 672 - 143)
Annie, b. 26Apr1906 at 49 Haligate (Uphall 672 - 182)
Margaret Jane, b. 1Jan1909 at 49 Haligate (Uphall 672 - 22); d. 1Feb1909 at 49 Haligate (Uphall 672 - 16)
Matilda, b. 10Jul1911 at 49 Haligate (Uphall 672 - 222)

There don't appear to be marriages or deaths for the 3 girls who survived.

In all cases the mother is named as Mary MARSHALL, previously DICKSON, m.s. McVICAR

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