Hugh Ryan b 1797 & niece Rose b 1835

[inchamore]

Hugh appears on the 1851 census living with his sister Jane Logan in L'pool, she was widowed in 1840.  He appears again in 1861, with his sister and a niece Rose Ryan.  They both hail from Co Down, I have found two possible baptisms for a Rose Ryan in Clonallon Co Down one in 1834 and the other 1838.  I cannot find a birth for Hugh the only one I can find is in Co Louth.  Any clues where to go next would be appreciated.

[Bhoy]

Hi,

What the 1851 census record says is that Hugh Ryan (50) is the brother-in-law of Margaret Logan (54), the head of the family.  Jane Logan (18) is her daughter.  Both Hugh and Margaret came from Down.  It seems likely that he's really the brother.

The 1861 census has Hugh (57) as the head, living with his sister Margaret Logan (50), neice Rose Ryan (26), nephew William Wilson (31) and his wife and family.  Hugh, Margaret, Rose and William are all Irish-born.  The other Wilsons are born in Liverpool.

Clearly, we've got a problem deciding what the correct dates of birth should be.

I can't find Hugh in the 1871 census.  There's a death of a 69 year-old Hugh Ryan in Liverpool in the 2nd quarter of 1869.  This age does fit with the 1851 census.  You could try sending for the death certificate. (Reference is to volume 8b, page 26.)

There's a suitable Margaret Logan (30) in Birkenhead in the 1841 census with husband John (30), their son Thomas (6) and his sister Jane (25), all of them Irish-born.  This suggests that Margaret and John were married in Ireland.  This isn't of course consistent with your current information, which has John dying in 1840.

There's also the death of a 79 year-old Margaret Logan in Liverpool in the 2nd quarter of 1877.  This age does fit with the 1851 census, though not the others.  You could try sending for the death certificate. (Reference is to volume 8b, page 110.)

There are 6 deaths in Liverpool of John Logans between 1843 and 1851.  Again, these death certificates may be useful.

Your real problem is that everything points back to Ireland at a time when there wasn't civil registration and for which church records are patchy.

There's a Hugh Ryan in Warrenpoint in 1815 (Freeholders' records), who has a son Thomas.   Given the tendency for names to run in families . . . 

The Rose Ryan born in 1834 has a father named Arthur.  According to the Tithe Applotment Books, there's an Arthur Ryan in Corrigs (Corrags) in 1834. 

You could also try tracking down Rose later on, to see if she married for example.  There's a marriage in Liverpool in 1869, for example.

Hope that's of some use.

[Bhoy]

You could also try tracking down Rose later on, to see if she married for example.  There's a marriage in Liverpool in 1869, for example.

The marriage in 1869 was of Rose Ryan to William Connolly, in St Augustine's Church, Great Howard Street, Liverpool.   

In 1871 the census shows them as being of ages 28 and 30, respectively.  So, unless she lied heavily about her age, it was a different Rose.   Living with the Connollys are another Rose Ryan (13), a neice, and a nephew.    Both Roses came from Warrenpoint.

I'm afraid that it's not really clear if there's any connection here.  Still, it looks promising as a lead.

[inchamore]

I would say the marriage of Rose to Willilam Connolly looks right as they are at 110 Gt Howard Street again in the 1881 census.  110 Gt Howard Street being the Spirit Vaults at which Hugh Ryan had also been publican in 1861 and where Rose first appeared as Rose Ryan neice of Hugh.  I also notice that Rose didn't marry until after Hugh Ryan had died in 1869.
I also think it is probable that Hugh and Margaret Logan probably were brother and sister.  Margaret appears as a widow in 1851 census living with Jane and Hugh who is listed as a carpenter also from Co Down.  I found Margaret and Jane on the 1841.  I also found christening records of a margaret logan in 1835 Father William,  Mother Margaret, also William March 1833 parents as above and Jane Dec 1830.  Im pressuming only Jane survived.
Margaret Logans husband William died and perhaps her brother came over at that time.  This one has fascinated me, thanks folks.

[Janie Carol]

I found Margaret and Jane on the 1841. 

I notice that the 1841 record has Margaret as born in Lancashire and born about 1801.    Also, Jane is shown as born about 1830.   None of that fits with the 1851 details.

On the other hand, I can't find any other suitable Jane in the 1841 records, which suggests that this is indeed them.

It looks very much as if you can't really trust any of this record-keeping.

Do let us know if you manage to pin the Ryans down in terms of their origin in Ireland.

****  Ooops, done it again.  Used the wife's login.  It's really Bhoy here.