The life of a con man part 2

[jaywit]

We know now that Mary Ann Turner used her dead father's name on Edwin's birth so seeing as Josiah had already changed his name once why shouldn't he change it to Charles Turner, and you never know the vicar might have asked to see Julian's birth certificate which will show father's name as Charles Pye Turner.
The next thing we need is to see that marriage between Mary Ann Turner and James Hubbard the witnesses on Edwin's marriage. Was James Hubbard another change of name for Josiah? or did Mary Ann marry someone else?

[deb usa]

Just a quick mention .. I saw that  cockney Ton (CT) also stated that he as in the Crimean War.

I have checked under Baldeston,.... nothing yet!

deb

Thank NS for the info 

[jaywit]

Deb  Edwin probably called in on the Crimean war on his way to Turkey to learn all about Turkish Baths
( via the Bullring in Birmingham) and BTW I read on the other thread he said he had served in Malta in the 1840's Yes.......


Deb if you don't know the Bullring it's a shopping mall with a large statue of a bull as it's centrepiece, and you have heard the saying  a load of old bull

[Keziahemm]

Now we have Edwin's birth information from Noel, one less thing for me to look up in Glos RO.

Other than Josiah Os insolvency papers and quarter sessions is there anything else needs checking?

Susan  

[Trees]

I sent poor N a long list of queries but she is over here for a flying data collecting visit and not really able to give us too much time until she gets home but I will ask about Edwina
I wonder if ETO used some of Tom's stories to put some realism to his fantasy life he seems a bit a sponge soaking in everyone else's persona but at least we know now he did have a bit of a "Right" to add the Pye to his name but we have no proof of an Onslow connection

ooh penny has droped he was a pie turner should have been a baker   sorry just needed a light moment its been a heavy day

Deb can you link the time line again it is very helpful
H

[Trees]

Did we find the Joshiah Scudder i remember there was a Margaret Turner marrying a Scudder did n't we decide that was going too far back but now we know there ids a definite connection perhaps that could be added to the glos. look up list if time allows please
H

[deb usa]

Time-Line ...will add to it when new facts come up

1841 Under TURNER, UK
1851 Under JAMES, Uk
1854 Alice Agnes Moore (Turner/Osbaldeston) born 28 Sept 1854 Suffolk
1854 ETO moves to San Fransisco...supposedly , see passport application
1860
1861 maybe employed at Turkish Baths  ..left them in 1864 to go to Aus
1862 Marries Annie PRATT UK
1864 son born and dies, UK, also leaves for Aus according to Joseph Burton (owner of Turkish Baths, London)
1865
1866 Annie Mabel TURNER born Aus

period between 1865 -1876
Annie disappears, ETO jailed/escapes, Aus
One newspaper article does state that ETO had been on a ball and chain for 10 years whilst serving his sentence in Aus!
ETO States in the Who's Who Magazine (of 1909) that he had been part of the Burke and Will's exploration team who had gone looking for new areas and to find out what happened to Ludwig Leichardt.... B&W had started out in 1861 and both died June 1861 ... so ETO was not in the party ... so how could Annie have been dragged off by a Kangaroo! Also there were no women in the party, just 15 men!!!!  ETO and Annie Pratt only arrived in Aus circa 1864/5 (see post on next page)

1876 ETO spotted in NZ, is jailed there then escapes from Addington jail and returns to Melbourne to get his daughter, Annie mabel.
1879 Alice agnes Moore/Turner/osbaldeston arrives in US ..she is consistent with this on censuses, naturalization record and passenger lists.
1880: * ETO = Alice Agnes Moore, 16 May 1880, Manhattan
          * ETO, Agnes, Annie TURNER living in Manhattan;
          * Augusta M A Turner born Rome, USA ( born after US 1800 census and   6 months prior to UK 1881 census)
          * ETO steals horse & wagon in Broome Co., NY
1881 Alice, Annie and Augusta TURNER in Suffolk with her dad Josiah MOORE: ETO in Jail, NY

1882 IGI ext Edwina Agnes Turner Osbaldeston  30 Jan 1882 Manhattan
1883 Edwin Julian b Mar 1883, NY
1884 Geneva b June 1884, NY
1885
1886 Normandy/ie b July 1886 NY
1887 ETO naturalized 16 Sept 1887, NY
1888 Francis b June 1888 NY; Annie mabel (Annie Pratt's dau) leaves home to marry F Knowles.
1889
1890 Alberta Born June 1890 NY,;  NY Directory has Osbaldeston massagers  Grin
1891
1892
1893 ETO accused of Child Abuse ...in newspapers
1894
1895 ETO and Louise Weiss arrested Montreal, Canada
1896 Mascot Louise Osbaldeston born Lake Titus, NY d/o ETO and Louise
1897
1898 Mrs Ethel J Osbaldeston and Kids leave UK 5 nov , arrive NY 12 Nov 1898
1899
1900 US Census ..2x Edwins ... 1 = PENN, 1= NY
1901
1902 ETO on killing spree in Germany
1902 * ETO..passport application in PENN,
         * Alice Agnes gets Naturalized,
         * Geneva leaves home to marry, report in newspaper Oct 27th to say she had not been abducted, Mother notfied (not dad!)
1903 * ETO returns from Hamburg, 8 aug 1903 (to correct address in NY)
         * Aug 15th 1903, Ms Lugas fearing for her life as "Prof." ETO threatens to kill her! Mrs Lugas aka Miss May is supposedly his WIFE! Mrs Lugas (with her daughter) had been housekeeper to the German guy that ETO had killed. (ETO got off the charges pleading insanity) ..this occurs 15 Aug 1903 a week after he has returned from Hamburg! could Miss May/Mrs Frank Lugus be Louise WEiss/Molzger??

1910 DR Edwin Turner leaves Southampton , arr NY on 13 June 1910
1910 US Census .. ETO, Alice, Alberta and Francis living in Manhattan .. census taken 29 April 1910, so maybe the above Dr. Edwin Turner is not "ours"

1913 * Alice Agnes leaves NY and Arrives UK 12 July 1913
         * Alice Agnes leaves Southampton 10 sept 1910 arrives Ny Sept 18 , address; 218W 82nd St NY

1920 Alice living in NY with dau Ethel (who marries crazy Donald Duncan Sewart)


let me know what needs to be added 

[jaywit]

Have you seen what name Cockney Tom called him?

'a man calling himself Edward Baldiston, stated to be manager of the Turkish Baths in Melbourne, giving a long account of his experience at Constantinople, and other places in Turkey, and applying for the management of the Adelaide Turkish Baths.' 
  and.  'The baths in Melbourne were burnt down shortly after that, and Baldiston found his way to Adelaide, and presenting himself and wife at the baths,'  it's 1866 he is talking about.




Deb If we believe Cockney Tom ETO was in Adelaide with his wife in 1866 after the Melbourne baths had burned down.

Now have we searched anywhere using that variation of his name?

[jaywit]

So the Julian Turner Osbadestone who died 1921 ( as per Deb) I think we can safely say he was ETO's brother who was registered as Julian Alexander Turner in Birmingham. Deb can you find him under any of his names on any earlier documents. I know you found a Canadian marriage. What I am thinking is did he go to either the US or Canada as a child with Josiah Osbaleston/James/ whatever?  This might just lead us to Edwin on some missing years.