Fromelles Missing - UK lads in the AIF

[fedelmar]

NAME   Scott, Robert Grieve Moncrieff         
SN   1046         
RANK    Private         
UNIT   32 Bn         
HONOUR   Standard entitlements         
BORN   Perth Perthshire Scotland         
OCCUPATION   Farmhand         
RELIGION   Presbyterian         
            
DOE   17.07.1915 Perth W. Australia         
AGE   22         
STATUS   KIA         
DATE   20.07.1916         
AGE   23         
BURIED   Rue Pettilon Military Cemetery I.L.46         
MEMORIAL   AWM 121         
DESCRIPTION   5 foot 9 1/2 with brown hair         
NOTES   ID disc returned by German authorities         
   Formerly from Dalwallinu W. Aust came to Aust aged 18         
            
NOK   Father: Andrew Moncrieff Scott - whereabouts were unknown         
            
   Mother: Christian Bryden Grieve Scott         
   Upper Kier Thornhill Dumfrieshire Scotland         

[fedelmar]

NAME   Toole, John      
SN   690      
RANK    Corporal      
UNIT   54 Bn      
HONOUR   Standard Entitlements      
BORN   Liverpool England      
OCCUPATION   Storeman      
RELIGION   Anglican      
         
DOE   19.04.1914 Bondi NSW      
AGE   27      
         
STATUS   KIA      
DATE   19.07.1916      
AGE   28      
BURIED   Unknown      
MEMORIAL   VC Corner Cemetery Memorial panel 10
   AWM 60 ??
   
DESCRIPTION   5 foot 5 with light brown hair
   GSW to arm Gallipoli
   
NOTES   Served Gallipoli
   Arrived Australia age 23
   
NOK   Father: George Henry Toole
   3 Mountjoy Street Everton Liverpool England
   
   Uncle: John Toole Sussex Street Sydney NSW
   
   Mother: Martha Toole
   
   Brother: George Toole

   Sister: Elizabeth Toole

   Sister: Susannah Toole

   Brother: Alfred Toole

   Brother: David Toole

[fedelmar]

NAME   Verpillot, Aime Constant         
SN   4885         
RANK    Private         
UNIT   53 Bn         
HONOUR   Standard entitlements         
BORN   La Jonchere Neufchatel Switzerland         
OCCUPATION   Scroll maker (wire worker)         
RELIGION   Methodist         
            
DOE   06.09.1915 Warwick Farm NSW         
AGE   24         
            
            
STATUS   KIA         
DATE   19.07.1916         
AGE   25         
BURIED   Unknown         
MEMORIAL   VC Corner Cemetery Memorial panel 9         
   AWM 158         
            
DESCRIPTION   5 foot 9 1/2 dark brown hair         
            
NOTES   Arrived in Australia aged 20         

   Naturalisation papers (1915/14267) at NAA dated 1915          
            
   ID disk returned by German authorities         
            
   Educated at public school in Switzerland and Grammar School Coventry England         
            
   I THINK THIS FAMILY WERE FRENCH AND MOVED AROUND THE GLOBE         
            
NOK   Father: Charles Eugene Verpillot
   Known address 1922: Ville des Pins, Caromb Vaucluse France.
   He was a watchmaker.  http://www.coventrywatchmuseum.co.uk/
   
   Mother: Berthe Verpillot (nee Venne as Ruth is listed as sister in law on census)

[fedelmar]

NAME   Joyce, Jack      
SN   1624      
RANK    Private      
UNIT   32 Battalion      
HONOUR   Three standard entitlements (all to untraceable)      
BORN   C 1887 Wolverhampton England      
OCCUPATION   Drover      
RELIGION   Anglican      
         
DOE   15.07.1915 Wagin W. Aust      
AGE   28      
   Residence on embarkation:      
         
STATUS   KIA      
DATE   20.07.1916 (19.07.1916)      
AGE   29      
BURIED   Unknown      
MEMORIAL   VC Corner Cemetery Memorial panel      
   AWM      
DESCRIPTION   Height 5 foot 3 with fair hair      
         
         Photograph of Jack Joyce courtesy of Yvonne Nie daughter of Rita Calder
         
NOTES   Letter stating that Joyce's medals were to be advertised world wide hoping to locate      
   relatives.      
         
   According to a letter in file Rita Calder proved the will of Joyce and stated that he had      
   no living relatives.      
         
   Joyce's identity discs were handed over by German authorities.      
         
   Date of arrival in Australia is unknown.      
   
   
   Friend: Mrs Rita Calder 37 State Street Victoria Park W. Aust
   Rita Calder was single when Joyce enlisted and later married.
   Rita Calder nee Tourney applied for Joyce's death certificate.
   Rita Calder was Henrietta Florence Hinde Tourney who married 1920
      
Mary McGEE married Thomas JOYCE in 1874 at Birmingham, Warwickshire.
(Index Volume 6d, Page 277)

John Thomas JOYCE was born in 1882 at Wolverhampton, Staffordshire (Index Volume 6b, Page 576)

Mary JOYCE married John ROSE in 1884 at Cannock Staffordshire (C1CL/3/254)
*NB - there is a second entry that lists Mary by her maiden name, McGEE

1901 Census has John and Mary ROSE living at Morpeth, Northumberland with the following children:
John T JOYCE, 18 yrs
Robert ROSE, 14 yrs
Nellie ROSE, 11 yrs
Mary ROSE, 7 yrs
Edwin ROSE, 9 mths

Mary ROSE died in 1909 at Morpeth, Northumberland, aged 52 (Index Volume 10b, Page 241)                        
                        
J.T. JOYCE recorded as having sailed from London in 1909 to Australia, arriving the port of Fremantle                        
www.ancestorsonboard.com                        
                        
It would also seem that he was the only child to Thomas and Mary and therefore (assuming Thomas                         
died before Mary's re-marriage) by the time he came to Australia, Jack was indeed an orphan.                         
His only living relatives would be the ROSE children who were his half-siblings.                        

[Auimfo]

Hello Everyone,

This is my first post here so be gentle with me!!

I am the 'other half' of the research team with Sandra and she has drawn my attention to this thread.   Firstly I'd like to thank everyone for their valuable input thus far, we are very grateful.

Just Moi is correct that the Germans did indeed take the ID disks and record all the names of those they buried.   German documents (death vouchers) are usually to be found in the service files of the Australian soldiers or in the Red Cross files.   In addition the ID disks taken by the Germans were returned to the families via the Red Cross and there is usually a notation reflecting this fact.   Unfortunately the actual death lists compiled by the Germans have long since been mislaid and we have only been able to establish those Australian names by examining the service file and Red Cross records.   However, there in no real need to comb through the service files and Red Cross files again because this has already been done.

What we are seeking is to contact current family descended from these soldiers (or as close as possible to) which is going to require quite a bit of genealogical detective work.   Thus far Sandra and I (along with a few other helpers) have located descendants for 100 of the 191 Australians believed buried at Pheasant Wood.   These sixteen of UK birth are probably the most difficult for us to follow purely because of distance and access to records.

Hopefully, with the kind help of everyone here, we might be able to solve a few and locate living descendants.

Cheers,
Tim L.

[fedelmar]

I think that is all of them ... if I have missed any I am sure you will contact me.

Thanks heaps for all the research you lot are doing ... fingers crossed we can find these families and the boys can be postively identified and have a name on their headstone.

Bright Blessings
Sandra

[Suffolk Mawther]

Regarding Benjamin Richardson of Blaxhall, I have contacted the Blaxhall Archive Group who have produced a book, CDs, DVDs and are still involved in an ongoing project about the village.  They have undertaken to record as much as they can regarding the history of the village and many hours of recordings have been completed.

There will be a festival in Blaxhall when they are celebrating George Ewart Evans' centenary this summer with a three day event 24th, 25th and 26th July 2009.

If any descendants of this family are still in the village or nearby, members of the Archive Group will know who to contact.

Pat ...
(Suffolk Local History Council)

[majm]

Welcome Tim to rootschat.

I am relatively new to this site, only months old here!  Been interested in family history long before I discovered the internet and long before I found rootschat.

My OH and I are of the view that the AIF digitised records online at naa.gov.au are worth trawling through again, but if you are sure that each page of each digger's record has been checked and the genie info recorded, and re-checked then we will not go down that path again.  But, so far, we have found some apparent discrepencies, eg Newcastle NSW rather than the UK city after which the NSW was named!   

Also, my OH is convinced that if someone were to contact the German archives that there will be one list there, which will just need a translation, and you will have a further confirmation of the ID discs, from primary records to at least confirm your previous research, and for example sort out 889 GARDINER from 889 GARDNER, I think the Germans even knew he was GARDNER depite the Aussie clerk putting that "I" in when he enlisted 

Please let us know if you would like us to go through those AIF records, OH is more than happy too, and I am a fair typist, so will do my best to draw attention to any stand out issues.

Cheers, from OZ,  Just Moi.

[Auimfo]

Thanks Just Moi,

Admittedly, the service files have been checked by several people over the course of the investigation but I don't think anyone has actually ever double-checked the genealogy information that Sandra and I have gathered from them.   It certainly wouldn't hurt to go over them again from this aspect.

The German archives in Bavaria and also the Red Cross archives in Geneva have been thoroughly searched already by the noted historian, Peter Barton (at the request of the Australian Gov't).   He certainly uncovered a treasure trove of staggering proportions in Geneva but was unable to locate any copies of the elusive German death lists at either location.

Cheers,
Tim.