Author Topic: Help to date photo  (Read 1985 times)

Offline maintrain

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Help to date photo
« on: Thursday 23 April 09 21:47 BST (UK) »
Hi 

Can anybody help date the attached photograph.   Haven't managed to find the photographer yet although I know it was taken in Dublin.

I'm not certain who the sitter is so a date would help identify her.

Many Thanks


Offline Rabbit B

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Re: Help to date photo
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 23 April 09 22:53 BST (UK) »
Hi maintrain,

Welcome to Rootschat, what a lovely picture this is. I will look for the photographer in daylight, I cannot see it well in this light.

Lovely hat she has!

Rabbit B  ;D
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Offline jim1

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Re: Help to date photo
« Reply #2 on: Friday 24 April 09 17:06 BST (UK) »
Older women are particularly difficult to date and there's not much stylewise to give anything of accuracy,however the style and composition of the picture suggests a date of late 1880's but could easily be 1890's.The lady looks to be in mourning wear which is reinforced by the black card stock.I would suggest the 1st. year of mourning.

jim
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline DudleyWinchurch

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Re: Help to date photo
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 26 April 09 19:20 BST (UK) »
Hi Jim,

I've been trying to trace the photographer on the Dublin board so will add the link here:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=376070.new

Given your dates, the most likely candidate now was widowed 1892 so the first year would limit the range to 1892-93.

However, from the link you can see that we are having little succes finding if that address could have existed any earlier than 1900ish.

Is it possible that someone would have re-issued a "mourning photo" on the black mount at a later date?

Otherwise, I will go back to thinking that maybe a parent or other relative whose name also began with "C" of the printer called Christopher Mooney previously owned the property in some form and was the actual photographer.
McDonough, Oliver, McLoughlin, O'Brien, Cuthbert, Keegan, Quirk(e), O'Malley, McGuirk (Ireland)
Dudley, Winchurch, Wolverson, Brookes (Black Country)
Concannon, Moore, Markowski (Markesky), Mottram, Lawton (Black Country)


Offline jim1

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Re: Help to date photo
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 26 April 09 21:15 BST (UK) »
Mmmmm....a bit of a puzzle,I can't see anything in this that would date it post 1910.
I can't get much from her dress style but her hair is too severe for this period and belongs 1880's-90's as does the hat.
Her dress is plain and straight which is a feature in 1890's-1900's.
The setting with this Roman ballustrade also 1880's-90's,by 1910 sets were much plainer and had gone back to an 1860's-70's style.
If she was a particularly old fashioned gal and the photographer a bit of a stick-in-the-mud I suppose you could push this up to 1905,but that would be kicking & screaming.

jim
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline DudleyWinchurch

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Re: Help to date photo
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 26 April 09 22:39 BST (UK) »
Hi Jim,

I've no doubt that you're right about the timing of the actual photo.  There was a little uncertainty about whether it was the lady widowed in 1892 or a later photo of one of her daughters.  The lack of any earlier references to the address suggested that it might be one of the next generation but I'm now fairly sure that all the daughters died in childhood (and we should be able to get certs to prove that).

The only problem is how to find out whether this photographer can have been at the address on the card mount in 1892 or, if not, how we have a photo apparently taken in 1892-3 but on a mount with an address that did not exist until later.

If the photographer was at that address in 1893 and still there or family still there in 1911 then he or she should appear on the 1901 census at the same address and then we would have to seek out directories for the years just before that to try and find a mention of it for confirmation.

I can imagine all sorts of reasons why one would go back and ask the photographer to make another copy later but, if we are really talking about at least ten years later, it seems odd to reprint a mourning photo on a "mourning card" mount rather than on a standard mount.
McDonough, Oliver, McLoughlin, O'Brien, Cuthbert, Keegan, Quirk(e), O'Malley, McGuirk (Ireland)
Dudley, Winchurch, Wolverson, Brookes (Black Country)
Concannon, Moore, Markowski (Markesky), Mottram, Lawton (Black Country)

Offline PrueM

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Re: Help to date photo
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 26 April 09 22:53 BST (UK) »
Just wanted to pop in and agree with Jim's assessment of 1880s/very early 1890s.  No later than that.  I don't think it's a reprint - the style of card is concurrent with the date the photo was taken.  Black mounts were 'standard issue' at various times, including the late 1870s-late 1880s.

Can't find anything about the photographer I'm afraid, but I have to admit I didn't have a really good dig around  :-[ :)

Offline DudleyWinchurch

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Re: Help to date photo
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 26 April 09 22:59 BST (UK) »
Thanks Prue,

I think that maintrain will be in Dublin again before me so perhaps I'll leave it up to him to solve this particular riddle.
McDonough, Oliver, McLoughlin, O'Brien, Cuthbert, Keegan, Quirk(e), O'Malley, McGuirk (Ireland)
Dudley, Winchurch, Wolverson, Brookes (Black Country)
Concannon, Moore, Markowski (Markesky), Mottram, Lawton (Black Country)

Offline Rabbit B

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Re: Help to date photo
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 26 April 09 23:48 BST (UK) »
Thanks Prue,

I think that maintrain will be in Dublin again before me so perhaps I'll leave it up to him to solve this particular riddle.

Hi maintrain,

If this lady is Irish you have my sympathy, my Irish relis are still eluding me too. 

You at least have this lovely picture, so that gives you something to go on.

Rabbit B  ;D
Conning/London
Wareham/Winchester
Hart/Cambridgeshire
Burns/Byrne/Liverpool and Ireland
Nibbs/London
Brealey/Staffordshire
Melbourn/Melbourne/Cambridgeshire
Hoyle/Liverpool
Relf/Sussex