My grandads name was John Bain Gardner (incorrectly given as John Baine Gardner on his birth certificate) , born in Dysart, Fife in 1881 (father John Gardner and mother Agnes Bain) and he married Ethel Cooper in 1923 in Edinburgh.
We think he died during the war years, but perhaps later, and was survived by Ethel, his second wife who was born in Shere in Surrey, and who raised my mum in the area around Peaslake.
We think he lived latterly in or very near Leatherhead.
I can't seem to find the detailed search facility for English records, shown to be so easily used on Scotland's People, and would appreciate any pointers to help me find what I can. English death records do not show the parents names I'm told so where do I go next?
I've been trawling through the Ancestry records for hours every night , and have spotted one possible John Gardner for 1943, but without parents or birth details it could be that he's is or is not my grandad.
I also found a photograph of a gravestone online which points to that same John Gardner, and with his wife's name given, but she's given as Lilian, not Ethel.
'My' Ethel gives the name Ethel only all through the cencus and marriage records I have for her, though I don't have a birth record for her, and her age in each and her age at marriage in October 1921 gives a birth date of around 1877/78. Her sister Lilian was a couple of years junior to Ethel.
Ethel was said to be 3 years older than John and is said to have survived him according to an a older cousin of mine. She worked in service according to my late Mum, somewhere around Guilford and had a sister Dolly. Dolly had one child; Cliff? Atholl?
Dolly was crippled with arthritis, like her and Ethel's mum. This ties in with information from other (distant)Cooper/Ladd relations and a contact in Shere.
In 1891 Ethel Cooper was a 14 year old scullery maid to Herbert Edlmann of Hound House in Shere, Surrey (census) and her parent's listing on the census return gives a daughter called Lilian aged 14 at home in Peaslake. Her age might be two years out there, but it is the right Ethel according to family memories containing the name Eldemann or Eldman, but she gives Shere as place of birth.
Lilian is at home with her parents at this time.
By 1901 Ethel was House Parlour Maid in Morden, at "Chalgrove" 3, Central Road, Morden, home of Emma H. Campbell, (Census).
Her place of birth again ties in with Shere, and her given name is Ethel Cooper, no other initials. I have not traced her sister Lilian at this date.
In 1921 Ethel married to JBG in Edinburgh and strangely gave her usual residence as 23 The Square, Penicuik, the home as it turns out of a James Bain, who could have been JBG's uncle, though there's no record of him having one such named.
They married after my grandmother died in childbirth, and Ethel took my then 5 year old mum under her care and moved back to Peaslake or thereabouts and raised her as her own.
The following, according to family stories from late mum, is how things progressed;
Ethel had been in service and had nursing training and had helped nurse my grandad back to health after one of his spells or recuperation from his injuries in France during WW1, in a house given over for the purpose for the duration of the war. Where this was is unclear. (Oh to have paid more attention when I was wee!!)
Upon demobilisation he was offered work by the house owner but returned home to Scotland and his family, but his wife Jane Dick died in early 1920 during childbirth, and that and the fact that his injuries made work in the mines very difficult, forced him to take up the offer and he moved with my mum to Surrey.
Mum lived and worked there until she was a teenager and returned home to Scotland for holidays with the family, meeting my dad and eventually marrying and staying here.
I traced the photograph of the grave in Putney Vale Cemetery and the image was kindly sent by charles.saleATgravesphotos.com and this shows the following;
"John Gardner, died 9th Sept. 1943 aged 63 and Lilian Gardner, died 1st April 1956, aged 79"
I've tried searching to see if John's war service records survived, which might have given me a pointer to where he recuperated and where he lived while getting his war pension ect., but thus far there's nothing to be found at all, despite having his service number and most of the other medals record details.
The information I have for sisters Ethel and Lilian show them to be who I thought they were, and Ethel and John Gardner did marry as evidenced by the marriage lines I have, which gave me her parental details.
The mystery is where and when they died, and I'm at my wits end to find the missing bits of the jigsaw.
We will be travelling down to the area during August to search for the graves of both John and Ethel, and will take a wee bit of Fife down to leave there, but where to start looking.........................?
