Was she really shot in the head?

[Sandy H]

There is a family story about the girl in this drawing. There is no name on the original, so I don't really know who she is. I seem to remember my gran saying that her name was Elizabeth. The story goes that she was accidentally shot in the head with her father's gun by her fiance at the age of 18 yrs. old

I have an Elizabeth Kindred in that family line who was born in 1811 and died in 1829 in Framlingham, Suffolk, Eng. The fact that it is a drawing and not a photo suggests that it might have been made before photography existed, which would make her a good candidate.

Free BMD records only go back to 1837. I understand that Parish Records exist before 1837.  I do have family bible records that say that they attended St. Michael's in Framlingham. Does anyone know if parish records are available online? I live in the USA and won't be visiting Suffolk anytime soon.

Or, if anyone knows how I could find out what newspapers existed at that time and place and if newspaper records would be accessible online.

If she is Elizabeth Kindred and if she was shot in the head, it must have been a sensational story for a small town. Hopefully, there is a record of it.

Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated! 

Sandy H

[AMBLY]

Hi Sandy H

I found an entry in a Google Book, re: Eliza KINDRED died Framlingham on 14 Jan 1829 age 17, dau; of Edmund and Lucy - is this the one you mean?  Her (sister?), Lucy died age 7 months, 4 days later on 18 Jan 1829. Same headstone.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/060q/

This tree places Lucy as a sister to Eliza
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/m/u/t/Jerry-Mutz-UT/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0021.html

This message wonders if Lucy is in fact the illigitimate child of Eliza.
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/SUFFOLK/2001-03/0985140224

Seeing the deaths of Eliza and baby Lucy so close together, one does wonder if Eliza died from complications following childbirth and the ailing baby died soon after her mother.

Cheers
AMBLY

[Sandy H]

Hi Ambly 

Fascinating!! Yes, you do have the right family. I'm amazed at what you found! Thank you so much!

Could be several possibilities.

1. It was winter and Eliza & her sister, Lucy, caught some illness and died a   
    few days apart.
2. Eliza was accidentally shot in the head and a few days later her baby sister
    happened to die, so the parents buried them together. I have 2 sisters who
    share a grave. They died 4 yrs apart.
3. 7 months after Lucy's birth seems a bit late for complications following
   childbirth. Also, they had a brother born in 1826, so their mother Lucy was
   still young enough to have children.
4. Baby Lucy was Eliza's child and her fiance did not want to marry her, so he
  "accidentally" shot her! The gun was her father's gun and it was hung above
   the fireplace. He, the fiance, reached up to get it down & the gun went off.
5. Eliza is not the person in the drawing who was shot.

I have 2 other potential girls from this family who died young. I thought it might be Eliza Kindred because she was 18 yrs old like the story.

Lucy Ann Kindred b. 17 Nov 1847 d. Oct 2, 1870 Framlingham, SFK.
Elizabeth Harriet Suckling b. 1853 d. Apr/May/Jun 1876 Steeple Bumpstead, SFK
Essex. Registration district Risbridge, Cambridgeshire.

I have not sent away for death certificates for these two, because I thought I would search out Eliza/Elizabeth Kindred first.

Thanks again for helping me!

Sandy H

[AMBLY]

Hi Sandy H

An equally facinating story you have to try and prove 
I did notice that the mother was certainley still young enough to be the mother of baby Lucy, and that Lucy wasn't born after a large gap follwoing the previous child - could be any one of the 5

I wonder, even though it's a drawing and not a photograph, if it might be worth placing it on the Photograph & Restoration Board here at Rootschat, and asking if there is anything about the drawing which might be able to date it.... the hair-style (fringe, tied back, flowers), what can be seen of the attire (high lace collar, open neck?), or even if the style of drawing can be narrowed to a period?

Cheers
AMBLY

[Suffolk Mawther]

The Kindred family were rather like the Bridges' in Framlingham - quite a few of them.

Framlingham St Michael and All Angels PRs are available in transcript from SFHS on CD-rom.
Have you seen the church at www.suffolkchurches.co.uk

There were several independent churches in the town too.

I have copies (my own notes) of the PRs from 1560-1900

I found the following amongst the burials for 1829

Eliza Kindred buried 20th January age 17 years
Lucy Kindred buried 20th January age 7 months

Also

'An epitaph found in Framlingham Churchyard'

Mary, wife of Edmund Kindred, 6th September 1801  age 46 years

Dear husband now my life is past
My love to you so long did last
Therefore for me no sorrow make
But love my Children for my sake

This is taken from Lambert's Almanac for 1874
(unfortunately I do not have one for 1829)


The newspaper to search would be
The Framlingham Weekly News*, originals of which are available in the museum for Framlingham, The Lanman Museum which is housed within Framlingham Castle.
However, I am sure my husband has been able to access them on film - possibly at the Ipswich branch of the Suffolk Record Office (will check with him on  his return from the office this evening).
When writing about the town he is meticulous with his research before publishing articles or books.
He has just had four articles in the Framlingham and District Historical and Preservation Society Newsletter about the various mills and millers in Framlingham.  There are notes on Edmund Kindred 1788-1857 who was a miller in the town, at Victoria Mill. Is he one of your line?

I am in touch with a Kindred researcher from Canada and my husband has always known the Kindred's who farm at Parham, a village next to Fram - so there are still Kindred family in the area.

Pat ...

* I will check the dates of publication with John

[Sandy H]

Ambly & Pat   

I like your idea Ambly, about posting the pic on the photo board to possibly date it.

Thank you Pat for your input about my Kindreds. I have seen the Suffolk Churches website. I wish my mum had a computer. I know that she would really enjoy seeing Framlingham & St.Michael's online. (She lives 1000 m away).

You definitely have the right family. They were millers and owned the Victoria Mill. Edmund or his son, Frederick went bankrupt and lost the mill. A John Kindred (Edmund's oldest son?) went to debtor's prison. My GGran was a genealogist and Grandpa Kindred said they spent a lot of holidays in Framlingham when he was a little boy so she could research. Alas, we only have a few bits of her notes. Some of which refer to the Victoria Mill & the bankruptcy. Frederick was her father-in law. Would it be possible to get copies of your husband's articles that you mention?

How wonderful to know that there may be newspaper records from that time period! Surely she would have made the newspaper, especially if she was shot!

The Kindred researcher in Canada, is that David Kindred? I've seen a few of his postings online.

Also Pat, I think on other postings you mention a David Kindred, a photographer in Ipswich. Do you know if he does genealogy or does he just have old photos of Suffolk? My Great Grandparents Frederick Kindred & Clara Suckling both attended a "drapers" school in Ipswich. Fred eventually became the "Head Master" of the school and when they were first married I believe they had a draper's and gentlemen's outfitter shop in Ipswich ca 1885. I don't know the name of the shop, though.

I am new to Rootschat and I love it!! In just a few days I have received so much help with my Kindred family.

Again, thank you both so much!

Sandy H

[Woody32]

From Google book search..


Kindred, Eliza, daughter of Edmund and Lucy, 14th Jan. 1829, 1?
years ; and Lucy, 18th Jan. 1829, 7 months*
 
Ere sin could blight or sorrow fade,
Death came with friendly care;
The op'ning buds to heav'n convey'd,
And bade them blossom there.

[Sandy H]

Thank you Woody! 

Downloaded the book. It's great and all about Framlingham.

Cheers

Sandy H

[Suffolk Mawther]

Hello again,

Yes, I know both Davids 

David Kindred in Ipswich has a vast collection of Suffolk photographs and has produced several books of photographic memories - we have several of them.

David Kindred 'in Cda' is a sort of distant cousin (as far as we can make out from our Bridges/Kindred connections.  Certainly Ada nee Kindred Frost has a connection through her late husband Royston to our Fruer Bridges who married Louisa Frost.  But there is an Elizabeth Kindred who married a Bridges boy too).

I think that the Framlingham Weekly News began later than 1819. 
I will check with John though.

Will ask about sending you the relevant article about the various members of the Kindred family and Victoria Mill in Fram.

Visiting family in Fram on Saturday 

~~~~~

Useful URLs

David's web site http://www.kindred-spirit.co.uk/

www.oldpond.com/acatalog/david_kindred.htm photo and narrative

www.poppyland.co.uk for John's last book on Fram